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Title: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Jester on September 21, 2014, 08:30:33 am Par crtica o ovom zanimljivom događaju
[attachment=1] opis slike i događaja iz knjige "letačka karijera Miljenka Lipovščaka" ; "Američki mornarički lovac F-8 Crusader koji je iz neutvrđenih razloga sletio na Zemunik u vrijeme dok je Lipovšćak bio zapovjednik 21. MAD-e." Iz vremena boravka u Zadru u sjećanju mu je ostao zanimljiv događaj kada je pilot američkog mornaričkog lovca Vought F-8 Crusader neočekivano sletio u Zemunik. Iako je svima bilo jasno da je bio na nekoj vrsti špijunskog zadatka ni nakon detaljne pretrage nije pronađena fotografska oprema. Avion i pilot su zadržani nekoliko dana nakon čega je malim dvomotornim avionom stigla skupina američkih stručnjaka sa pilotom koji je vratio F-8 u njihovu bazu ili možda na nosač aviona Dva opisa događaja na engl. jeziku iz izvora na internetu ; "Adm Paul Gilcrest tells this story in his book, “Crusader – Last of the Gunfighters” pp. 142-143: A young LT who he identifes as “Duke” had a major electrical failure and lost all comm/nav/IFF and bingoed from the carrier in the Tyrrehain Sea to the Italian AF Base at Capodichino. He flew over solid overcase by dead reckoning, overshooting his intended destination and ending up low fuel over an airfield behind the iron curtain. He was wined and dined and sent home the next day." "The unnamed aviator was flying from his carrier to an Italian Air Force Base at Capodichino, near Naples, having experienced an electrical failure. He had no nav, no communications, no IFF, etc. The base was socked in and he kept trying to find a place to land. After overflying the width of Italy, all covered in clouds, he kept flying until he got into the clear over water and saw coastline ahead. He flew on until he sighted an air field below. It turned out to be Dobrovnik, Yugoslavia. Low on fuel, he had no choice but to enter the pattern, rocked his wings to indicate he had no radio, and proceeded to land. Of course, he didn't know where he was until he was on the ground and saw all the MiGs parked parallel to the runway. He was met by several vehicles filled with armed soldiers and lead to a parking place. All he could do was follow and do what they said. Realizing the cockpit was full of classified stuff, there wasn't much else to do but pull out a hair and place it across the canopy rail before locking the canopy, just to see if they got into the plane while he was away—assuming he ever got back to it himself. After a flurry of flash message traffic, he received orders from his own people through diplomatic channels to fly back to Capodichino the next morning. The Yugoslavian Air Force guys treated him like an honored guest and fellow aviator, wined him and dined him that night, gave him a tank of gas and sent him on his way the next morning, with a MiG escort to the edge of Yugoslavian airspace. He had found the hair was still in place that morning when he got back to his plane. He was a bit hung over from all that vodka (he learned that fighter pilots were the same everywhere), so the squadron sent their more experienced maintenance officer to get the plane fixed and fly it back to the carrier. Ironically, the maintenance officer took off in broad daylight with the wings still folded. Gillcrist made no mention of anything being painted on the plane. I wonder if the Yugoslavians tagged it. Or maybe that happened after he got back to Italy." Ako netko ima dodatnih saznanja o ovom događaju tj. točan datum bilo bi dobro da nadopuni. Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: MOTORISTA on September 21, 2014, 10:18:31 am Prvi put čujem za ovaj događaj. Hvala Jester.
Već pomenuta letelica je izgubljena 21. oktobra 1961. godine kada joj se lomi stajni trap prilikom sletanja na nosač aviona CV-42. [attachment=1] http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/f8_crusader.htm I sam događaj... [attachment=2] [attachment=3] [attachment=4] [attachment=5] [attachment=6] [attachment=7] [attachment=8] [attachment=9] http://www.vfp62.com/Flightdeck_crash.html Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Solaris on September 21, 2014, 11:21:51 am Mozda ovo da neki vremenski okvir.
Quote U NOVJ je letio kao pilot Eskadrile za vezu Vrhovnog Štaba na Visu, a krajem rata kao zapovjednik 113. lovačkog puka bori se na Sremskom frontu. Poslije rata je upućen na školovanje u Sovjetski Savez, a po povratku je postao nastavnik na Vazduhoplovnoj vojnoj akademiji u Beogradu. Zapovjednik 103. izviđačkog puka postao je 1952., a slijedeće godine je premješten na položaj zapovjednika 21. mješovite avio divizije u Zadru. Kao upravnik i probni pilot od 1956. do 1960. boravio je u Vazduhoplovnom opitnom centru u Batajnici. Kao civilni pilot od 1961. do završetka letačke karijere 1980. letio je za nekoliko domaćih i inozemnih zračnih prijevoznika diljem svijeta, a osnivač je i višegodišnji direktor Više zrakoplovne škole u Zagrebu i hrvatskog prijevoznika Trans Adrie. http://www.jet-manga.hr/012station/lipovscak.html poz. Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Рашо on September 21, 2014, 12:08:39 pm Догађај се десио након фебруара 1959. године. Тада је та јединица добила ловце Ф-8...
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: proxy1969 on September 21, 2014, 12:22:01 pm Već pomenuta letelica je izgubljena 21. oktobra 1961. godine kada joj se lomi stajni trap prilikom sletanja na nosač aviona CV-42. Meni nešto ne štima, ako je ovaj izgubljen 1961, a u priči se spominje MiG, a znamo da juga do 21-ce nije imala MiG-ova koji se uvedeni 1962, koji su to MiG-ovi i gdje...? Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Jester on September 21, 2014, 12:26:27 pm Ova druga priča na engl. jeziku je više napisana kao urbana legenda no neki djelovi su točni, tako da je dio o Migovima po meni čista bajka, a Amerima je tada svaki avion iza željezne zavjese bio Mig.
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: proxy1969 on September 21, 2014, 12:46:17 pm Ova druga priča na engl. jeziku je više napisana kao urbana legenda no neki djelovi su točni, tako da je dio o Migovima po meni čista bajka, a Amerima je tada svaki avion iza željezne zavjese bio Mig. A bit će da je tako "priča za lokalce" jer u to doba juga je i imala samo "američanske" borbene avione, a čisto sumnjam da američki pilot ne bi skužio F-84 ili F-86, Tv 2 ili što već... Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Adler on September 21, 2014, 12:52:44 pm A teško da bi mu ponudili vodku. Neku rakiju možda, ali vodku... On sleteo u Dobrovnik a "MiG"-ovi ga dočekali na zemlji.
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Solaris on September 21, 2014, 02:13:56 pm Jedna slicna diskusijica > link (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=194774) <
Quote I am sure that this F8U-1 ( later on designation changed into F-8A ) is from VF-11 Red Rippers , the time period must have been ( looking at the markings ) during the Med cruise of The CVA-43 USS Franklin D. Roosevelt ( Jan 1960 - Aug 1960 ) The BuNo is a question mark but it starts with 1437?? poz. Ps : meni avast vristi kad pokusam otici na stranicu (neznam zasto) morao sam ga iskljuciti da pristupim sadrzaju. Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: dzumba on September 21, 2014, 04:50:03 pm Вероватно је носач авиона са кога је узлетео Ф-8 био негде у Јадрану. Можда је тај пилот Ф-8 имао квар на инструментима или неки други проблем па је искористио могућност да слети на земаљски аеродром земље, која је тада ипак сматрана пријатељском.
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: jadran2 on September 21, 2014, 04:57:28 pm Link koji je dao Solaris (s nizom fotografijom) vjerojatno opisuje bas taj dogadjaj u vremenu koje je navedeno; moglo bi se usporediti kada je komandant 21-og MAD-a bio M. Lipovscak.
[attachment=1] Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: kumbor on September 21, 2014, 06:59:06 pm Možda je pilot hteo da zatraži politički azil!? 8) Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: ZuluDelta on September 23, 2014, 11:18:46 pm Fotografija iz Liksine knjige o Lipovščaku jest sa aerodroma Zemunik, ali datira iz kasnijeg vremena, točnije taj događaj zbio se 1960. ili početkom 1961. na osnovu istraživanja svjedoci govore o ovim godinama.
Avion F-8I-1 Crusader VF-11 "Red Rippers" /prva shema/ teil cod AB BuNo 14375 /najvjerovatnije -nagađam/ bazirao na nosaču CVA-42 FDR, Crusader je pipadao CVG-1 ,pilot je sletio zbog otkaza instrumenata i vrlo lošeg vremena na talijanskoj strani jadrana. Još se bavim ovim slučajem , pilot je danas viceadmiral u mirovini, pokušavam doći u kontakt s njim, ako neko od vas ima ideju kako doći do njega molim da mi se javi na pm. Zahvaljujem ZD PS.za maketare ovo je taj sq i avion s brojem 202 [attachment=1] Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Solaris on September 24, 2014, 05:02:51 pm Sve je to napisano vec na temi, jedino bi se dalo malo pronjuskati detaljnije boravak ruzvelta u mediteranu pa vidjeti dali je zapisan koji detalj vezan za dogadjaj.
poz. Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: jadran2 on September 24, 2014, 07:01:44 pm Bas i nema, sto od ranije nije receno:
http://ussfranklindroosevelt.com/?page_id=11439 Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: ZuluDelta on September 24, 2014, 10:13:23 pm Sve je to napisano vec na temi, jedino bi se dalo malo pronjuskati detaljnije boravak ruzvelta u mediteranu pa vidjeti dali je zapisan koji detalj vezan za dogadjaj. poz. Mislim da sam pregledao sve, ali vezano za ovaj događaj on se nigdje službeno ne spominje, osim površnog spominjanja kao ovaj primjer s migovima :laugh: Pozdrav ZD Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: Jester on September 26, 2014, 12:57:01 pm Pitanje je jeli 1960 ili 1961 godina, jer koliko vidim po knjigama krstarenja "VF-11" je 1960 bila smještena na tom nosaču dok prethodnih godina nije, a narednih godina ostaje na tom nosaču, a događaj u kojem je F-8 ser. broja "212" stradao zbio se vidimo u desetom mjesecu 1961.
USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CVA 42) Mediterranean Cruise Book 1960 (http://navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv42-60/index.html) USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CVA 42) Mediterranean Cruise Book 1961 (http://navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv42-61/index.html) Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: ViribusUnitis on September 26, 2014, 01:47:34 pm Ostalo je nejasno je li riječ o Dubrovniku ili Zadru.
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: dzumba on September 26, 2014, 06:38:29 pm Како се на слици види и један војни полицајац, онда је то скоро сигурно аеродром где је било војне полицији. А то је Земуник код Задра. На дубровачком аеродрому није било војне полиције јер није ни био војни. Како пише на сајту Дубровачки аеродром (локација у Ћилипима) је пуштен у рад 1962-те године (изградња 1960). Дакле, није ни био оперативан у време могућег догађаја.
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: ZuluDelta on September 26, 2014, 07:45:51 pm Pitanje je jeli 1960 ili 1961 godina, jer koliko vidim po knjigama krstarenja "VF-11" je 1960 bila smještena na tom nosaču dok prethodnih godina nije, a narednih godina ostaje na tom nosaču, a događaj u kojem je F-8 ser. broja "212" stradao zbio se vidimo u desetom mjesecu 1961. Zemunik je sigurno tu nema dvojbe, ali da odgovorim poštovanom Jesteru, pogledaj na BuNo ovog aviona koji je stradao i onog na Zemuniku......radi se o 2 aviona, točno imaju isti broj 212 na nosu, ali različite serijske brojeve koji su mjerodavni. Pozdrav ZD Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: relja on September 26, 2014, 08:21:19 pm Posle 10 minuta kreativnog Google-anja ;
Quote ...Within 60 days, in January 1960, VF-11 was disestablished. Next day at Cecil field, VF-43 was disestablished and immediately commissioned as VF-11, so the "Rippers" were not to die. Me and 2 others went from "old 11" to "new 11," a good mix of PN1 Paul Abel, AOC 'Ski, and this second class mech. izvor : http://users.cloudnet.com/djohnson/g_fixr_2.htmThe new VF-11 was flying F8U-1s and before long, I found myself back at sea in the workup cycle and we later made the shakedown of Independence (CV-62) to Gitmo. I was a line PO and Power Plants super for most of it. Stayed with them through the next Med cruise in '60 and left in Naples for shore duty. The day I left Capodichino for home, I said good-bye to the maintenance officer, LCDR Jack Barnes, who was taking a bird up for a test flight. This was the day--for after preflight and taxi out, he flew that long tube off into the sky with his wings still folded! He made it around very carefully and managed to get her back down in one piece. Lady luck flew that day! This was also the period when LTJG Duke Hernandez picked up a replacement Crusader from Rota and flew it back to Naples for later recovery aboard. Somehow, with the foul weather he overflew all of Italy and landed in Yugoslavia! Took a few days to get a hoofer and folks over to get him back and it is true that he did not come home. Rather, he flew aboard Saratoga and spent a few memorable hours with ADM "Cat" Brown, COMSIXTHFLT to explain his peccadilloes. It evidently did not hurt career-wise for Duke was to retire as VADM some years later. I worked with him in OPNAV and he later was my CO in JFK (CV-67)... Admiral o kojem je reč (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_E._Hern%C3%A1ndez) i jedna kaubojska priča (http://books.google.rs/books?id=BxT6h8zo2X0C&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175&dq=Duke+Hernandez+yugoslavia&source=bl&ots=e-DdkpHbYk&sig=NXjQAUtpZOsRRI2dC9LNMjaVSzI&hl=sr&sa=X&ei=YLglVMPBIqPnygOW_4HYBg&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Duke%20Hernandez%20yugoslavia&f=false) E, sad - ja na ojoj fotografiji koja je navodno snimljena u Jugoslaviji vidim da je nešto napisano na trupu ispod levog krila, u tri reda, i da se u drugom i trećem redu nazire "Air National Guard"... Takođe, za avion AB-212 (http://www.millionmonkeytheater.com/F8U.html): Quote F8U-1 (F-8A) 145347 *1961: VF-11 as “AB-212“. *Converted to TF-8A. *Currently preserved at the USN Museum of Naval Aviation, Pensacola, FL. At Sherman Field? Photo of 145347 (http://www.millionmonkeytheater.com/f8upics/145347.jpg) F8U-1 (F-8A) 145357 *1961: VF-11 as “AB-212“. *10/21/1961: Ditched into the sea while landing on CVA-42. Photo of 145357 (http://www.millionmonkeytheater.com/f8upics/145357.jpg) F8U-2NE (F-8E) 150858 *1964-65: VF-11 as "AB-212". *1966: VMF(AW)-235. *11/11/1966: Shot down by ground fire near Vinh Linh/Dong Hoi, North Vietnam. Photo of 150858 (http://www.millionmonkeytheater.com/f8upics/150858.jpg) Od ova tri broja, meni se čini da avion na fotografiji nosi 145357, iako se ne vidi od krila... Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: daliborsky on April 30, 2016, 09:59:38 am sletio je u Zemunik
Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: kumbor on April 30, 2016, 10:18:22 am Šteta što se odustalo od F-8 Crusader III, sa J-79 motorom. Opiti su pokazali da je mogao potegnuti preko M2,5, da je bio pokretljiv i da je "strašno brzo penjao". Međutim, prednost je data F-4. Title: Re: F-8 Crusader u Zemuniku Post by: milan55 on September 01, 2021, 09:16:05 am Mislim da je i jedan A-7 sletio "greskom" u Pulu?
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