PALUBA

RUSSIA PLANS PURCHASE OF FRENCH WARSHIP: MILITARY CHIEF

ULAN BATOR, Aug 26, 2009 (AFP) - Russia plans to purchase a French navalhelicopter transport ship this year and is interested in jointly producingmore of the vessels, the head of Russia's armed forces said here Wednesday.

"We are working on agreements that would allow us to produce and purchase this ship," General Nikolai Makarov told reporters, referring to the French-made Mistral heavy helicopter carrier.

He declined to specify a price for the purchase. Asked when the deal would be finalized, however, Makarov said: "This year."

Makarov said the discussions so far concerned purchase by Russia of one of the French-made vessels, an amphibious force projection and command ship that can carry up to 16 heavy helicopters as well as hovercraft and landing craft.

But he indicated that talks were in progress on possible future joint production of several more of the sophisticated warships.
"We also want to establish production of a series of at least four or five ships of this class," he said.

Makarov said the Russian navy did not currently possess this kind of ship, which is costly and complicated to build, and would therefore look for a supplier outside Russia.

"No country in the world can do everything" on its own, he said. "Something will have to be purchased" abroad.

Russia has long talked up plans to modernize its armed forces. Outrightpurchase of a warship from a NATO member country, however, would mark a significant change from past practice that has focused on domestic production.

The French navy currently has two Mistral amphibious assault vessels inservice and this year began construction of a third. Makarov did not specify which of the ships Russia planned to buy.

http://www.adetocqueville.com/200908...qbzrv25386.htm



Russia set to purchase large French warship - top brass

ULAN BATOR, August 26 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is planning on signing by the end of 2009 a contractual agreement with France on the purchase of a Mistral class amphibious assault ship, the chief of the Russian General Staff said on Wednesday.

"We are planning to reach an agreement [with France] this year on the production and the purchase of a Mistral class vessel," Gen. Nikolai Makarov told a news conference in the Mongolian capital, Ulan Bator.

"We are negotiating the purchase of one ship at present, and later planning to acquire 3-4 ships [of the same class] to be jointly built in Russia," the general said.

A Mistral class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 main battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and could be used as an amphibious command ship.

Makarov did not disclose the amount of the deal, but a high-ranking Russian source close to negotiations earlier said the ship could be worth between 300 and 400 million euros ($430-580 mln).

The purchase, if successful, would be the first large-scale arms import deal concluded by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Russia first expressed an interest in bilateral cooperation with France in naval equipment and technology in 2008, when Navy chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky visited the Euronaval 2008 arms show in France.

The admiral said at the time that the Russian Navy was interested in "joint research and also direct purchases of French naval equipment."

According to other military sources, the possibility of buying a Mistral class amphibious assault ship was discussed at the naval show in St. Petersburg in June this year.

Russia's current weapons procurement program through 2015 does not envision construction or purchases of large combat ships, so the possible acquisition of a French Mistral class ship is most likely to happen under the new program for the years up to 2020, which is still in the development.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090826/155931865.html

Estonia alarmed over Russia's intention to buy French warship
22/11/200905:15

TALLINN, November 22 (RIA Novosti) - Commander-in-Chief of the Estonian Defense Forces Ants Laaneots said if Russia buys a French Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, measures should be taken to ensure Estonian national security.

"If the French finally sell it [the warship], we should consider security measures to be taken in case the ship is deployed in the Baltic Sea," Laaneots told Estonian television on Saturday.

Estonian security analyst Eerik Niiles Kross said: "If Russia obtains such a modern and effective warship, which can carry a tank battalion, take aboard several hundred people and faultlessly control [its] operations... the possession of such equipment will provide Russia with a considerable advantage, if it is deployed in the Baltic Sea."

Russia is seeking to buy France's Mistral-class helicopter carrier worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 mln). The ship will arrive on an official visit to St. Petersburg on November 23, and the Russian Navy and defense industry experts will be able to inspect it.

Moscow is also planning to build another four helicopter carriers in Russia under French licensing.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles, including 13 battle tanks, as well as 450 military personnel. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

The Russian Navy is planning to deploy the Mistral-class warships in the Northern and Pacific fleets to conduct troop transport, peacekeeping and rescue missions. In addition, the helicopter carriers could be used effectively in anti-piracy operations, including off the Somali coast.

Russian shipbuilders strongly oppose the deal and the government has yet to make a decision on whether Russia needs to build costly amphibious assault ships.

Russia, France: Panicking the Baltics
November 25, 2009 | 1818 GMT

Summary
The captain of France’s Mistral (L 9013) helicopter carrier said Nov. 24 that the vessel will hold drills with Russian helicopter teams based in St. Petersburg. This announcement comes as Russia has expressed interest in purchasing a vessel based on the Mistral design. These developments, along with Russia and Belarus’ joint Zapad exercises in September (which put thousands of Russian troops near Baltic territory), are making the Baltic states nervous. As a result, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia could ask the United States and NATO for more concrete military assistance.

Analysis
Diditer Piaton, captain of France’s Mistral (L 9013) helicopter carrier, said Nov. 24 that the vessel will hold joint drills with the Russian helicopter teams based in St. Petersburg. The ship will also be open for visits from Russian citizens and naval personnel. The Russian government has shown great interest in purchasing a ship modeled on the Mistral. The issue will be high on the agenda when Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and French President Nicolas Sarkozy meet in France Nov. 26-27 for the 14th summit of the Russo-French Commission on Bilateral Cooperation.

The potential purchase of the helicopter carrier and the upcoming drill are making Russia’s neighbors in the Baltic States particularly nervous.

The Mistral is designed for expeditionary operations far from friendly shores. The vessel can carry more than 40 tanks, 16 heavy helicopters and 450 soldiers, and can travel up to 20,000 miles at 18 knots. The purchase of a Mistral-based vessel would indicate a shift in Russian naval strategy, which thus far has been doctrinally committed to operations closer to home. Although Russia has some amphibious capability, the purchase of a modern vessel designed after the Mistral would give Russia a fundamentally new capability. The Russians hope that any sale will also include technology transfers so the Russian navy can develop in-house technological know-how for building similar ships.

Russian naval operations rarely have needed amphibious warfare vessels. Lacking suitable ports for naval expansion, Russia has traditionally concentrated on projecting its power via land-based strategies. Unlike the United States or the United Kingdom, which depend on global trade and therefore global shipping for economic and political security, Russia has always placed a premium on spheres of influence that can be accessed via land: Ukraine, the Caucasus, Central Asia and Central Europe. These serve as Moscow’s security buffers, but also as economic markets to trade with and develop. When Russia has tried to project its power via the navy, as in the 1904-1905 war against Japan, it has failed spectacularly.

With advances in military technology, however, comes the need to adapt to new tactics. The protracted conflict in Chechnya, where Russia’s large army was bogged down for years, illustrated the need for Moscow to create a more nimble and fast-reacting fighting force. The intervention in Georgia in August 2008 showed that Russia is working on creating such a force. However, Russia’s geography makes it difficult to quickly project power in the far-flung regions that make up its spheres of influence.

Enter the Mistral.

STRATFOR sources in the Russian defense establishment say Mistral’s main appeal is that it would cut the deployment time of Russian troops from the Crimea to Georgia from four days to 18 hours and the deployment to anywhere in the Baltic states from five days to 24 hours. This is undoubtedly also clear to Tbilisi and particularly the Baltic capitals — especially with the Mistral moored roughly 190 miles from Tallinn and 500 miles from Riga. Not only would an amphibious vessel cut down deployment of Russian troops, Russian special forces would also be able to deploy behind enemy lines — Mistral’s specialty — while the main force took traditional land routes.

If Russia does purchase a Mistral-based vessel, the Baltic states surely will not be pleased, especially following Russia and Belarus’ joint Zapad (which means “West” in Russian) exercises in September, which placed nearly 13,000 troops near the Baltic and Russian borders. The Zapad exercises simulated the liberation of a besieged Russian exclave of Kaliningrad, a military scenario that would inevitably involve Russian forces moving through the Baltic states, given the geography. Russian defense establishment sources referred to the exercise as a “drill” and emphasized that the scenario for the exercises is something the Russian military routinely prepares for.

The Baltic states responded to the Zapad “drill” by demanding that the United States and NATO hold exercises with the Baltics in 2010. The United States said in early November that such exercises would be held in late 2010 and would become an annual event.

The purchase of a Mistral vessel ups the stakes in the Baltics because it would mean that Russia would be able to complement its overwhelming land-based superiority in the region with modern amphibious technology. The Baltics are already demanding an explanation of why France, a NATO ally, is considering such an important deal with Russia. Traditionally wary of Russian power projection in the region, the Baltics could very well demand from the United States and NATO more than just token presence in the region. The Baltic states might want concrete military aid to counter Russia’s mounting military capabilities. If so, satisfying those demands could lead to increased tensions between NATO and Russia in the region and potentially initiate a mini-arms race in the Baltic region.

France OKs carrier sale to Russia

08 February, 2010

France has agreed to sell the Mistral helicopter carrier to Russia. The Russian Navy also has its eyes on three more similar vessels in the future.


The approval of the defense deal was announced Monday by Jacques de Lajugie, the international development director of France’s armaments board Delegation Generale pour l’Armement (DGA). He added the possible addition of three more helicopter carriers has only been discussed on the technical level, not on the political.

Russia’s Navy voiced its intention to buy a helicopter carrier last year. The goal is to study the technology and tactical advantages of such a ship.

The French warship Mistral is the main candidate for the purchase, and she even paid a three-day visit to St. Petersburg in November so that top brass could examine it personally. However, the final decision has not yet been made and Russia is considering alternatives.

France currently has two vessels of this class deployed, which means additional warships will have to be commissioned if Russia wants an extra three. Some Russian Navy officials also speculated that the Mistral can go with a license to build similar vessels in Russian shipyards.

France should abandon its proposed sale of four advanced warships to Russia, which could inflict "irreparable damage" on NATO and transatlantic ties, a top U.S. lawmaker warned April 16.

"This sale threatens to shake the NATO alliance to its core, bolstering Russia's offensive military capabilities as it intensifies its campaign of intimidation against neighboring countries," said Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Writing in The Hill, a newspaper focused on Congress, Ros-Lehtinen urged her colleagues to back a non-binding resolution she authored declaring "unequivocal opposition" to the transaction.

"By going through with its proposed sale of Mistral ships to Russia, France risks causing irreparable damage to the NATO alliance and the trans-Atlantic relationship," she wrote.

"Empowering Russia with such capabilities blatantly undermines the security of those NATO allies that are withstanding Russia's policies of intimidation and outright aggression," she said.

France announced in March that it had entered into "exclusive" talks with Russia on the sale of the four Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, capable of carrying up to 16 helicopters and a 750-strong landing force.

If the deal goes through, it would be the first sale of advanced military technology by a NATO country to Russia.

France has argued that Russia must be treated like a partner and not a threat in Europe, but it has been unable to alleviate deep misgivings from the Baltic countries, Georgia and the United States over the sale.

Concerns were heightened in December, when a Russian naval commander said a Mistral would have been useful in August 2008 when Russian forces were battling Georgia's military.

Поставка российских вертолетов Ка-52 для оснащения кораблей "Мистраль" ВМС Франции является вполне реальной перспективой
Поставка российских вертолетов Ка-52 для оснащения кораблей

МОСКВА, 12 мая. (АРМС-ТАСС). Возможность поставки российских ударных вертолетов Ка-52 для оснащения авианосцев "Мистраль" ВМС Франции является вполне реальной перспективой, сообщил на пресс-конференции исполнительный директор холдинга "Вертолеты России" Андрей Шибитов.

По его словам, в ходе знакомства с вертолетоносцем "Мистраль", который планирует закупить минобороны России, "мы отрабатывали работу вертолета и корабля".

"И нам было приятно услышать от французского военного морского командования, что Ка-52 просто создан для ударных операций с этого вертолетоносца. Вертолет полностью вписался по всем параметрам в структуру корабля. И в будущем мы можем рассчитывать не только на поставки "Мистралей" в Россию, но и на поставки Ка-52 для оснащения "Мистралей" французских ВМС", - заявил Шибитов.

Он также отметил, что решение о возможной закупке французского вертолетоносца "для нас вертолетчиков является просто замечательным". "Только благодаря этому решению в России реанимированы программы палубных вертолетов", - сказал глава холдинга.

В частности, по его словам, "реанимированы проекты по модернизации российского ударного палубного вертолета Ка-29 и поисково-спасательного вертолета Ка-32А11ВС".

French warships for Russia may be armed with Ka-52 helicopters

Russian Ka-52 Alligator helicopters may be the best choice to arm Mistral helicopter carriers, which Russia plans to purchase from France, the chief of Russian helicopter holding said on Wednesday.

Russia negotiates the purchase of at least one Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $530-$660 million) and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with a French naval shipbuilder.

The director of the Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation in April told RIA Novosti the political decision on the Mistral's purchase had already been taken.

"The French have said the Ka-52 could be the best helicopter for the aircraft carriers [helicopter carriers]," Andrei Shibitov said while answering a question on which helicopter may be used on the Mistral. Two other types of helicopters were tested on the Mistral when the ship made a short port call in Russia in 2009, he added.

The Ka-52 is armed with a 30-mm cannon, Vikhr (Whirlwind) laser guided missiles, rockets, including S-24s, as well as bombs.

The Ka-52 is a modification of the basic Ka-50 Hokum model. The development of the Ka-52 started in 1994 in Russia, but its serial production began only in 2008.

The helicopter is also equipped with two radars, one for ground and one for aerial targets and a Samshite nighttime-daytime thermal sighting system.

MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti)

Manji je problem amerikancima u ta cetiri broda a vise ih brine povezivanje ruske i francuske vojne industrije koji je neminovan na ovako velikom projektu.

Mogucnost da se stvori neka veza koja bi ugrozila americku dominaciju u evropi kad je u pitanju vojna industrija za amerikance je krajnje neprihvatljva i rekao bih da prica nece ostati samo na ovome.

French warships for Russia to be armed with Ka-52 helicopters
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100814/160200401.html
16:07 14/08/2010
Mistral-class helicopter carriers, which Russia plans to buy from France, will be armed with Russian Ka-52 Alligator helicopters, Air Force Commander Colonel General Alexander Zelin told the Ekho Moskvy FM station on Saturday.

Mistral-class helicopter carriers, which Russia plans to buy from France, will be armed with Russian Ka-52 Alligator helicopters, Air Force Commander Colonel General Alexander Zelin told the Ekho Moskvy FM station on Saturday.

He emphasized that the Ka-52 Alligator helicopters are very advanced and are equal to best foreign models.

The Ka-52 is armed with 30-mm cannon, Vikhr (Whirlwind) laser guided missiles, rockets, including S-24s, as well as bombs.

The Ka-52 is a modification of the basic Ka-50 Hokum model. The development of the Ka-52 started in 1994 in Russia, but its serial production began only in 2008.

The helicopter is also equipped with two radars, one for ground and one for aerial targets and a Samshite nighttime-daytime thermal sighting system.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of at least one French-built Mistral-class amphibious assault ship and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

The Russian military has said it plans to use Mistral ships in its Northern and Pacific fleets.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

In April, the head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation, Mikhail Dmitriev, said the Mistral deal would be concluded by the end of the year.

MOSCOW, August 14 (RIA Novosti)

France is ready to build the first Mistral Class helicopter carriers for Russia from 2013, according to Jacques Hardelay, president for operations at French shipbuilder STX Europe.

"If Russia and France sign the deal, the first Mistral Class vessel may be built in the shipyards of Saint-Nazaire late 2013-early 2014," he said.

"If the contract is signed, one year later, namely in 2015, Russia would get a second Mistral Class warship. Therefore, by 2016 the Russian Navy would have two Mistral Class warships," he added.

The Saint-Nazaire shipyard will be the most likely winner of the tender to build amphibious assault warships for the Russian Navy, according to RIA Novosti.

Russia will build its first domestically produced Mistral Class amphibious assault ships in late 2016 or early 2017.

France and Russia have agreed to build jointly two French Mistral-class command and amphibious assault warships, with the possibility of two more, President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said Friday.

"Following the Oct. 5 tender to supply the Russian navy with two projection and command ships, the Russian authorities have chosen the consortium of France's DCNS and STX and Russian naval yard OSK," it said.

"Their offer initially covers the joint construction of two of this kind of vessel, which should be extended by the construction of two more," Sarkozy's Elysee Palace said in a statement.

The deal is the first sale to Russia of such naval high-tech by a NATO country and France's NATO allies, in particular the former Soviet Baltic states, have expressed concern about arming Moscow with modern Western weaponry.

Russia's choice of the French ships came after French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said on a visit to Moscow earlier this month that France was ready to transfer military technology if it won the tender.

Russia had been in exclusive talks with France to buy two Mistrals but in August the defense ministry announced an international tender as the talks stalled on the question of technology transfer.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin had stressed that the price and the possibility of technology transfer to allow Russia to subsequently learn to build its own warships of the same class would be key criteria in its choice.

France began negotiations with Russia in 2009 on a possible deal to sell Moscow the Mistral, a powerful warship costing around $650 million.

A Mistral-class ship can carry up to 16 helicopters, four landing craft and a 750-strong landing force. It is equipped with a 69-bed hospital.

Sarkozy's office said the deal would lead to the creation of 1,000 jobs in French shipyards over four years.

A U.S. diplomatic cable relating a Paris meeting between U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and his then French counterpart Herve Morin said that Washington believed the prospective sale sent a "mixed signal" to both Moscow and Eastern European allies.

Morin disagreed, saying the warship would not alter Russia's overall military power.

"Morin told SecDef pointedly that he had pushed hard for the sale. He conceded that it was indeed a warship for power projection," the document said.

"But Morin asked rhetorically how we can tell Russia we desire partnership but then not trust them."

Morin expressed understanding of the US view that Central and East European states saw Russia as a potential threat, but argued "that this single ship would not make any difference with respect to Russian capabilities, as Russia's naval production ability was severely degraded."

Lithuania and Latvia on Dec. 27 took NATO ally France to task over a warship deal with Russia, with Vilnius warning that Paris was setting a risky precedent.

"I think this is a mistake," Lithuania's Defence Minister Rasa Jukneviciene told reporters.

"This is a precedent, when a NATO and EU member sells offensive weaponry to a country whose democracy is not at a level that would make us feel calm."

Lithuania and fellow Baltic states Latvia and Estonia - who were ruled by Moscow until 1991 - have repeatedly criticized France's plans since Paris began negotiating a warship sale with Russia in 2009.

Last Friday, France said it had struck a deal under which Moscow would buy two Mistral-class command and amphibious assault warships from a French-led consortium, with the possibility of two more.

"Of course, for countries around Russia, this is not pleasant news. It's definitely not the Christmas gift we would have liked to receive," Jukneviciene said.

Latvian Defence Minister Artis Pabriks said he was upset that France had ignored the concerns of its regional NATO allies, but underlined that he did not think the sale would cause major security problems in the Baltic Sea.

"Looking at the situation from a realistic viewpoint, one has to admit that French economic interests - in this case, selling the ships - would have no dramatic effects either on the balance of forces in the region or NATO strategy in the Baltic states," he was quoted as saying by the Baltic News Service.

The deal, which involves joint construction of the Mistral-class ships, is the first sale to Russia of such naval high-tech by a NATO nation.

A Mistral-class vessel can carry up to 16 helicopters, four landing craft, 13 battle tanks, around 100 other vehicles and a 450-strong force. It has facilities for a full command staff and is equipped with a 69-bed hospital.

The Russian army has said such a ship would have helped it win its August 2008 war with ex-Soviet Georgia within hours rather than days.

Russian military moves raise concerns in the Baltic states.

The Kremlin only withdrew its troops from their territory in 1994, three years after they won independence when the communist bloc collapsed.

The three states, with a combined population of 6.8 million, still have rocky relations with giant Russia, notably since joining NATO and the EU in 2004.

France has agreed to fully equip Russia's Mistral Class helicopter carriers with a complete set of communication and control systems, a senior official in the Russian Defence Ministry has said.

"Russia has reached an agreement with France that meets the Defense Ministry's demand to provide Mistral with the communications and other systems that would satisfy the requirements of the navy," the source added.

According to the Russian-French intergovernmental agreement, signed in January, the two Mistral helicopter carriers will be equipped with Zenith 9 communication and control system, spare parts and technical documentation.

The countries will jointly build the two estimated €980m-€1.15bn Mistral Class helicopter carriers at the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, France, and the other two at the Admiralty Shipyards in St Petersburg, Russia.

The French Mistral Class amphibious assault ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armoured vehicles and 450 personnel.

The first two Mistral Class ships are likely to join Russia's Pacific Fleet to protect the disputed Kuril Islands.

France reached a deal on the sale to Russia of four helicopter carriers in the first major Russian purchase of military hardware from a NATO country.

“We have reached a final agreement on the contract to acquire Mistral aircraft carriers,” Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said today after talks with his French counterpart, Nicolas Sarkozy, at the Group of Eight summit in Deauville, northern France.

Two of the warships are to be built in France and two in Russia, Sarkozy said. “We decided everything: price, technology transfers and the calendar,” he said, adding that the final contract for the command-and-control Mistral-class vessels will be signed next month during a visit to Paris by Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

Some of Russia’s ex-Soviet neighbors including Georgia and the Baltic countries have expressed concern the ships could be used against them. Russia and U.S.-allied Georgia fought a five- day war in August 2008.

France’s state-owned military contractor DCNS and the shipbuilder STX will build the two ships with OAO United Shipbuilding Corp. of Russia. The sale may total about 1.37 billion euros ($1.94 billion), the Russian state-run news service RIA Novosti reported Dec. 30. Russia’s share in building the first Mistral will be 20 percent and as much as 40 percent for the second, RIA said.

The Mistral is a 200-meter (656-foot) ship, capable of carrying as many as 700 combat troops, 16 helicopters and 60 armored vehicles.

Russia plans to acquire additional Mistral Class amphibious assault ships from France.

Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said Russia would sign a contract with France for the third and fourth Mistral Class amphibious assault ships by the end of 2011.

"I believe we should complete the negotiating process and have these contracts signed before the end of the year," RIA Novosti quotes Serdyukov as saying.

In June 2011, Russia and France struck a $1.7bn deal regarding two French-built Mistral Class amphibious assault ships for the Russian Navy.

Capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armoured vehicles and 450 personnel, the helicopter carriers are expected to become operational in 2014 and 2015.

Oglasili su se i iz Ministarstva odbrane sa informacijom da nisu odustali od gradnje dodatna dva broda klase Mistral, već da su samo odložili početak njihove gradnje sa 2013. na 2016. godinu a da će ovaj period iskoristiti za procenu performansi i za uspostavljanje njihove uloge u okviru ruske RM kakva je sada i kakva se planira. Navode da je potrebno i da se shvati šta je sve potrebno da bi se ovi brodovi efikasno upotrebljavali i održavali sa tehničke strane. Zbog svega toga, moguće je da će biti neophodne određene izmene koje bi bile implementirane na brodove građene u Rusiji.
Prethodno su i RIA novosti citirale ruski magazin Vedomosti u kojem se tvrdi da su od izvora bliskih vladi saznali da se odustaje od gradnje dodatna dva broda a da je to odlučio novi ministar odbrane Sergej Šojgu u cilju preusmeravanja sredstava na druge projekte.

http://en.rian.ru/business/20121221/178312682.html

http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121221/178305031.html

Ova kupovina Mistrala nije mozda los posao bas zbog toga sto zele da grade novu klasu nosaca aviona.

Ovako bi obezbedili transfer tehnologije i podigli nivo osposobljenosti sopstvene brodogradnje.

Problem u Rusiji je sto su se oslanjali na tehnicka i naucna dostigunuca iz doba SSSR-a i slabo se na tom planu radilo godinama.

Naravno lobi industrije oruzja u Rusiji je jak (kao inace u vecini zemalja) i uopste nisu gledali blagonakono da kupovinu oruzja u inostranstvu. To je mozda i doslo glave Serjdukuvu.

Prenost tehnologijei nije losa stvar i nema zemlje u svetu koja je danas u stanju da razvije sve za sopstvene potrebe.

Koristiće sa njega helikoptere Ka-52K Katran, Ka-27 i Ka-29.

Mistral nije nosač aviona, uslovno može biti nosač helikoptera. To je desantni brod - dok sa avijacionom komponentom, a Francuzi ga nazivaju brodom za projekciju snaga - BPC. Pitanje je kome takav brod stvarno danas treba.

 :) Pa mozda ne bi bilo lose pokazati Rusima, u stilu generala de Gaullea u Kvibeku 1967, sto misle o Sevastopolju; da podsjetim na rijeci gen. de Gaullea na mitingu:

«Vive le Québec libre!»

Kakva bi se poruka napisala na francuskom ili na ruskom, kao i dimenziju odgovarajuceg plakata preko cijele palube, izbor je posiljatelja broda.

Zna se i kakvu je reakciju poruka izazvala, ali se eto pamti vec blizu 50 godina.  :)

Njemačka predlaže da EU otkupi brodove klase Mistral

EU bi mogla, radi sankcija protiv Rusije, od francuskog proizvođača  DCNS otkupiti dva amfibijska broda klase Mistral. To je ocjena nekih vojnih analitika. Francuska još nije donjela odluku, jer prekid  ugovora predviđa  visoku  novčanu kaznu, pa predviđaju barem 1,6 milijarde US dolara gubitka. Njemačka mornarica je predložila, da ih otkupi EU i da ih koristi za potrebe cijele Europe. Kod toga nije još jasno što bi bilo sa 4 (+4) desantna broda CTM NG, koji su dio opreme brodova Mistral.

U međuvremenu je ruska mornarica već naručila 32 borbena helikoptera Kamov Ka-52K hokum-B (alligator). Na brodove Mistral bit će ukrcani I helikopteri Ka-29TB helix I helikoptere za spašavanje   Ka-27PS helikx-d.

Vir: "Obramba" SLO
http://www.obramba.com/

Znam, u Mikolajevu su gradjeni i sovjetski nosaci i veci brodovi, mislio sam na veca brodogradilista na Krec-u koji jeste deo Krima. ;)

Ukraine crisis: France halts warship delivery to Russia

France has said conditions are "not right" for delivery of the first of two Mistral navy assault ships to Russia.

President Francois Hollande's office blamed Moscow's recent actions in Ukraine.

France had until now resisted pressure to halt the delivery.

Correspondents say the EU has struggled to tighten sanctions against Russia, restricting itself to travel bans and asset freezes against individuals. New sanctions are expected within days.

The Vladivostok, the first of the two helicopter carriers, was expected to have been delivered to Russia by late October.

Питах једном, какав је, у ствари, статус ових бродова? Чији су они?

Intelektualno vlasništvo - 100% francusko. Sami brodovi, 60% DCNS, 40% VMF, jer je 40% "Vladivoustoka" izgrađeno u Sankt Petersburg. Posada je u Saint Nazaireu, čila i vesela, a obuka traje redovno. Biće isporučeni.    

Sad mi pade na pamet mogućnost otmice broda od strane ruske posade, nalik begu BB Rišelje iz Bresta u junu 1940. pred nosom Nemaca. Ne verujem u takvu mogućnost, ali ... kakav bi to holivudski triler bio!

Kaćo, nikakva presuda ne postoji, valjda si zato i obeležio ru reč, ali mi nije jasno ko bi se i zašto namirivao "po ruskim računima i nekretninama po svijetu".

Mala napomena, morao sam dobro napregnuti mozak da bih se setio šta znači lepa reč "ovrha". Ovrha je izvršenje kao pravni postupak.  Ipak, s obzirom da je sva pravnička terminologija u Crnoj Gori u potpunosti beogradska, tj. srpska, samo u ijekavskoj varijanti, ni srpski ni crnogorski pravnički rječnici ne poznaju riječ ovrha - već samo i isključivo izvršenje. 8)

 Iz kabineta francuskog predsednika Fransoe Olanda 3. septembra je saopšteno da Pariz neće isporučiti prvi od dva nosača helikoptera Rusiji zbog aktivnosti Moskve na istoku Ukrajine.

Ne bih znao da ti kažem. Sve zavisi šta piše u ugovoru. Bojim se da se francuzi neće tako lako izvući i da će morati ili da isporuče brodove, ili da vrate parice. Ipak je rusija rusija, a ne srbistan ili neka druga banana republika. Naćiće već rusi način da im doakaju.

Realno, nije ugovor o izgradnji i isporuci Mistrala nesto sto smo sastavljali ja i jos jedan pravni laik. Siguran sam da je u pitanju odlican ugovor gde su se obe strane maksimalno zastitile i gde su definisane sve moguce varijante..Realno, mislim da su u pitanju veliki penali i kamate za kasnjenje u isporuci ako je kupac ispostovao sve svoje obaveze...

Вертолетоносец «Мистраль» перешел под флаг России

Вертолетоносец «Владивосток» типа «Мистраль» в международной системе определения судов AIS теперь идентифицируется, как российское судно. Соответствующая информация появилась на сайте AIS.
 
AIS – автоматическая идентификационная система в судоходстве, служащая для определения судов, их габаритов, курса и других данных с помощью радиоволн.
 
Первый российский вертолетоносец «Владивосток» типа «Мистраль» был построен на верфях STX France в французском Сен-Назере. Он должен был быть официально передан российскому Военно-морскому флоту 14 ноября. Однако пока торжественная церемония не состоялась.

То опет значи да ће међународно право (у овом случају трговинско) бити разрено. Француска ће у сваком случају бити, макар у кулоарима, означена као трговачки непоуздана земља, што ће дугорочно утицати на њену привреду, чак и више него да је платила пенале.

Не постоји одлука Савета безбедности УН која би се односила на неке санкције против Русије, или која би Русију довела у везу са сукобом у Украјини. Све што Француска одлучи је њена самостална одлука, а то да ли је та одлука усклађена са НАТО или ЕУ не мења ту чињеницу.

Шта ће се даље догађати, зависи од Русије и од онога што је написано у уговору. Лепеза могућих одговора је широка, али ово је висока политика у којој се одлуке доносе рационално, а не емоцијама.

Zanimljivo će biti pratiti dokle su Indusi spremni da idu u zatezanju situacije sa Rafalima.

Ne znam da li sam citao ovde na Palubi,i Izrael je svojevremeno izvisio za Miraze jer francuzi nisu hteli da im prodaju pa su se ovi posle okrenuli amerima i od tad kupuju samo americke avione,mislim da je tako nekako bila prica nisam 100% siguran.

videćemo šta će biti kad dođe 14.12.2014. tad prolazi tih 30 dana
jer ipak su tamo i ruski mornari, ako ne planiraju da im to isporuče onda će morati i njih da vrate kući.
Ja sam nekako optimista i mislim da će da puste prvog mistrala da krene kući

Juzni tok NE - Mistral DA.

- naravno samo kao pretpostavka -  8)

Vezana trgovina je moguća,ali kad je dvadesetosam  onih koji donose odluku,manje vjerovatna.

I šta reče ovaj ???

Susedima verovatnije.

Da li je moguće oavakava kombinatorika. Recimo Indija odluči da pazari brodiće obori cijenu uđe u posjed i preproda ih Rusima. (Rusi Dobiju lovu nazad i i brodiće "ispod" cijene) :D

A šta ako ih prosto isporuče posle nekog dogovora ispod žita? Šta bi to eventualno moglo da bude prihvatljivo za obe strane?

Juče sam na radiju slušao komentar nekog francuskog pukovnika (bio u francuskim jedinicama na KIM)koji je komentarisao
ovu isporuku i rekao: parafraziram:

U vreme De Gola Francuska je napustila intergisano rukovođenje iz nato, sada je vreme da Francuska napusti nato i postane svoj
gazda.

Juče sam na radiju slušao komentar nekog francuskog pukovnika (bio u francuskim jedinicama na KIM)koji je komentarisao
ovu isporuku i rekao: parafraziram:

U vreme De Gola Francuska je napustila intergisano rukovođenje iz nato, sada je vreme da Francuska napusti nato i postane svoj
gazda.

Bravo majstore, slažem se s njim. Samo, jbg... :rtfm, kad se on ne pita.... :-\

Могуће је да је увођење санкција од стране ЕУ за испоруку бродова Русији у вези са поменутим уговором. Наиме, то би онда могло (можда) да се подведе под "виша сила" (Француска на то није могла да утиче ни да претпостави). Занимљиво би било видети као је решено питање "више силе" у само уговору, односно шта се под тим подразумева као и ко сноси трошкове због штете у том случају.

Zamjenik ministra odbrane Rusije poručio Francuskoj
Antonov: Isporuka "mistrala" ili vraćanje novca

Rusko Ministarstvo odbrane saopštilo je danas da Francuska mora da ispuni ugovor i isporuči dva nosača helikoptera klase "mistral" ili da Moskvi vrati novac.



Dodao je da Rusija može da traži refundiranje prema ugovoru vrijednom 1,2 milijarde eura.

A šta ako francuzi kažu da za vraćanje novca nisu ispunjeni uslovi? Kome će se tada Rusija obratiti za pomoć?

Nadležnost suda određuje se zakonom i na osnovu zakona, pa ako je u konkretnom slučaju dopuštena prorogacija nadležnosti može (ali i ne mora) ugovorom (prorogacionim sporazumom ili prorogacionom klauzulom).

Kako Francuzi (ili Rusi) stoje "pravno" ne zavisi samo od toga šta piše ugovoru (a niko od nas ne zna šta u njemu piše) već i od onoga ko bude sudio i svega što uz to ide.

Niti je $1,2 mlrd za Rusiju značajna suma novca, niti je Mistral u tolikoj meri zahtevan projekat da ga Rusija ne može sama realizovati. Ni ta dva broda neće opredeliti sudbinu pacifičke i crnomorske flote. Rusija će samostalno razviti projekte i izgraditi slične brodove u budućnosti u svojim škverovima, ako proceni da je to prioriteno u odnosu na druge projekte. I u prošlosti su projekti drugog razreda (a tu spadaju i desantni brodovi) građeni u stranim (istočnemačkim, poljskim itd. brodogradilištima), jer su njihovi kapaciteti bili uposleni gradnjom jedinica prvog ešelona.

Trenutno se u Rusiji garde tehnološki zahtevnije lađe od Mistrala.

Problem je narušavanja principa i poverenja u odnosima država koje uzajamno posluju. Nisam pravnik niti ekonomista, ali iz ovog što sa margine pratim, činim mi se da potezi koje obe strane mogu preduzeti, mogu imati teške posledice po celokupne međunarodne odnose.

jer ne postoji gotov projekat i nema slobodnih navoza, pa bi Rusija mogla dobiti takav brod iz svojih Bdg. ne pre 2022-2024. godine, prvi, prototip... pa onda, dalje...

Ili, Francuzi su našli novoga kupca, pa pripremaju brod za predaju?

Možda je vest namerno plasirana 1. aprila.....

Putin je nedavno rekao da Rusija očekuje vraćanje novca od ugovora vrijednog 1,2 milijardi eura i zaključenog u junu 2011. godine.

Po obavještenim izvorima, vlasti u Moskvi su već dale 800 miliona eura.

Da li nas dvojica različito razumemo tekst iz vesti na koju si dao link (u citirabom delu je izvod iz vesti na portalu "Vijesti" na koji upućuje link)? Koliko ja shvatam Rusija je od ugovora vrednog 1,2 milijarde evra već platila 800 miliona. Dakle, ne da francuska nije vratila 800 miliona nego toliko treba tek treba da vrati.

E onda mi nekako deluje, da će ih Kinezi otkupiti.

ови французи ко да нису под висак??? добили паре за изградњу, па би сад још и за разградњу? а русима моша. изгледа да им америчани баш заврнули ја...руке.

Ukrajina je ovih dana donijela zakon po kome neće vraćati dugove.RF potražuje valjda 3mlr,Medvedev diže galamu ali gledajući realno šta se tu može itd.

Poz.

Mislim da će se ovde Kinezi ovajditi najviše.

Liči i na tri decenije stari projekat 11770 - Halzan.

Halzan je projekat  10200. Ali na njega mi sliće I Priboj I japanska DDH/LHD klasa Hyuga.

I, posle svega, ko je u ovom poslu na gubitku, a ko na dobitku?

Mislim da je na kratke staze dobitnik USA, jer je onemogućila isporuku brodova Rusiji, i tako na neki način onemogućila (prolongirala) ulazak ta dva značajna broda u Rusku flotu.

Na duge staze verujem da su Rusi na dobitku jer su savladali (ukrali) tehnologiju gradnje takvih brodova.

Najveći gubitnik je svakako Francuska, jer iako su brodovi privedeni kraju, ostala je bez ''zarađenih'' para. Zatim, morala je platiti odštetu Rusiji, a nedovršeni i očerupani brodovi (ako rusi skinu svu svoju opremu) su im ostali na grbači. Moraće dosta da se potrude da bi ih prodali nekome.

Zapravo, tako im i treba, kada umesto da gledaju svoje interese, oni ispunjavaju želje ''velikog brata''.

Mistrali u sebi zaista sadrže vrlo vrlo opremljenu bolnicu sa više operacionih sala, ranga divizijske bolnice, uključujući i zubarsku ordinaciju.

To bi bio vrlo, vrlo interesantan predlog. Human pre svega, mada $kup.

Arapi i nosač helikoptera, lol.

Sumnjam da bi Rusi dali Ka52K ikome. Ka27 da, ali ovo ne. A bez njih je ovo dosadan brod koji samo izgleda lepo.

Ne vidim razlog zašto im  eventualno ne bi prodali KA 52K sigurno nešto osiromašen, Pare su Pare, a te helikoptere što su Rusi već naručili za ta dva Mistrala ... pa verovatno će da smanje  broj porudžbina, jer im ne trebaju više u tom broju, a sigurno se jedan deo već pravi, pa što ne bi taman prodali eventualni višak i još po koji komad van toga. Kao što rekoh Pare su Pare, Prvi ih imaju a drugima svakako trebaju a i nisu gadljivi + je tu obuka, rez. delovi ... malkice sam otišao van teme, ali možda i nisam.

Cudi me da hoce da prodaju K-52,ipak je to masina bez premca u svetu ???

Ruska i egipatska strana su potpisale dogovor o 50 komada Ka-52..

I to je odlična vest, 50 kom. tih dobrih i skupih mašina je dobar posao.

sto bi rekli splitski narkomani u ekstazi : "ajme brale ludila sve je u flash-u"

Kakav bi to potez bio.

Teško, dobar deo od 300MEUR treba da ode na "tropikalizaciju" brodova - koja Rusima uopšte ne treba.

Teško, dobar deo od 300MEUR treba da ode na "tropikalizaciju" brodova - koja Rusima uopšte ne treba.

Malo ću otići u off topic:
Sećam se pre desetak godina, kada je Egipat od nas kupio raketne čamce, osim ugradnje novih motora najveći problem tokom remonta je upravo bila kompletna klimatizacija brodova. Naši nisu imali iskustva sa tim, pa su dosta lutali oko rešenja, i nikada ga nisu rešili na potpuno prihvatljiv način.
Kasnije, tokom garantnog perioda, upravo je najviše reklamaciju bilo na klimatizaciju brodova.

Možda su Rusi već i tražili neke predispozicije brodova za topliju klimu, ko zna šta je uopšte tačno bilo naručeno od strane Rusa tada. Nikad ne znaš gde ćeš da intervenišeš u nekom vremenskom periodu, pa mi je malo čudno da su baš Mistrali toliko ne pripremljeni za toplije predele.

Kako če oni namaknuti pare da plate ove brodove? Uzgred, ne znam ni šta će im? Dođe li do sukoba sa Izraelom oni će ove brodove potopiti dok si rekao "keks".

Kako če oni namaknuti pare da plate ove brodove? Uzgred, ne znam ni šta će im? Dođe li do sukoba sa Izraelom oni će ove brodove potopiti dok si rekao "keks".

Kako ne shvatite strategiju i taktiku. Jedan ce biti na jednom kraju a drugi na suprotnom dijelu Sueckog kanala. U slučaju neposredne ratne opasnosti, oba broda se potapaju otvaranjem ventila i kanal je zatvoren!

Ma ok za pare.Ali, šta će im??

Ja mislim da neće dugo ovi brodovi ni krasiti Port Said. Vrlo vjerovatno da će kroz par godina zavrsiti kod nekog trećeg(drugog!!).

Egipat zatražio od Rusije helikoptere Ka-52K za „mistrale“

Novosti online | 18. oktobar 2016. 20:17 | Komentara: 10

Egipat se obratio Rusiji sa molbom za isporuku helikoptera Ka-52K za nosače helikoptera „mistral“, saopštio je zamenik direktora Federalne službe za vojno-tehničku saradnju Anatolij Punčuk.

„Dobili smo zahtev egipatske strane za isporuku helikoptera Ka-52 brodskog baziranja. Poručilac razmatra mogućnost formiranja nekoliko helikopterskih eskadrila. Tačan broj je usaglašen tokom dodatnih pregovora“, izjavio je Punčuk.


Ranije je objavljeno da je drugi „mistral“ uplovio u egipatsku luku Aleksandriju.

Dva nosača helikoptera su izgrađena u Francuskoj za rusku Ratnu mornaricu prema ugovoru iz 2011. godine. Pariz je 2014. godine obustavio isporuke zbog situacije u Ukrajini i na Krimu u avgustu.

Sledeće godine ugovor je raskinut i francuska strana je vratila Rusiji novac i rusku opremu sa brodova.


(Izvor: sputniknews.com)

„Odakle gnev i gorčina? Raskid ugovora za Francusku je, izgleda, uobičajena stvar. Pariz je 2015. godine otkazao ugovor sa Rusijom o dva nosača helikoptera ‘Mistral’. Ili bole samo noževi koje osećate u svojim leđima?“