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Author Topic: Kina dovršava svoj prvi nosač aviona  (Read 34602 times)
 
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« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2014, 01:12:59 pm »

Kina:Piloti poginuli u probi nosača

b92.net

Peking -- Dva pilota poginula su izvodeći probne letove sa kineskog nosača aviona, javila je danas kineska agencija Sinhua.

Izveštaj o smrti pilota, koji su poginuli 28. avgusta, objavljen je pošto je kineski predsednik Si Djinping uručio priznanja svim pilotima koji upravljaju avionima sa jedinog kineskog nosača aviona Liaoning.

"Dva pilota žrtvovali su svoje živote prilikom proba", navodi se u izveštaju agencije.

Letovi koji se izvode sa nosača aviona su rizični i stradanje pilota nije neuobičajeno.

Visoki kineski vojni zvaničnici više puta su govorili o namerama Kine da svoju mornaricu opremi sa još nekoliko nosača aviona, ne navodeći detalje.

Kineski vojni piloti lete u borbenim avionima J-15, koji su kopija ruskog suhoja Su-33.
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Solaris
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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2015, 06:14:59 pm »

NAJVEĆI DO SADA
Zašto Kinezi grade novi nosač aviona? Nitko ne zna

Kineski državni mediji početkom tjedna 'slučajno' su pustili vijest da ta zemlja gradi svoj drugi nosač zrakoplova u gradu Dalianu na Istočnom kineskom moru, blizu granice sa Sjevernom Korejom.

U Dalianu se grade razna plovila, pa i ona ratna, a vidno zaneseni djelatnik izlanuo je kako su svi u brodogradilištu uzbuđeni jer su dobili posao izgradnje drugog kineskog nosača zrakoplova.

Pitanje je je li to rekao planski ili slučajno, ali može biti da je zaista nehotice odao državnu tajnu jer su se tamošnji cenzori potrudili da vijest što prije nestane iz lokalnih novina Changzhou.

Kina sada posjeduje jedan nosač zrakoplova, Liaoning koji je kupila od Ukrajine 1998. i preradila ga za trenažne i eksperimentalne svrhe. Više je puta najavljeno kako će Kina krenuti u gradnju drugog nosača, a prema neki izvorima i trećeg i četvrtog. Ti bi nosači zrakoplova dizajnom i funkcionalnošću više podsjećali na američke nosače koji su znatno veći od onih koji su proizvedeni za vrijeme Sovjetskog Saveza, kakav sada Kina posjeduje.

Već dvadeset godina Kina značajno povećava vojni proračun, a dobar dio novca odlazi kineska mornarici koja je tradicionalno bila najzapostavljeniji dio kineske vojske.

Zaokret u vanjskoj politici te zemlje učinio je mornaricu jednim od prioriteta pa sada Kinezi planiraju razviti pune sposobnosti obrane rastućih ekonomskih interesa. Prevedeno, to znači potpun vojni nadzor mora i kopna u Južnom i Istočnom kineskom moru, oko kojih rastu napetosti sa susjednim državama.

Kineska ulaganja u nosače zrakoplova kojima bi projicirali silu diljem svijeta dugoročna su. Sovjetski Savez godinama nije uspio napraviti nosač zrakoplova usporediv s američkim, ali Kina se uzda u svoju gospodarsku moć, a čini se i u špijunažu.

Ključni dio koji Sovjeti/Rusi nisu savladali parni je katapult koji kao iz praćke izbacuje zrakoplove s palube kako bi lakše poletjeli. Ruski su za to koristili zakošenu palubu koja se može koristiti samo s lakšim zrakoplovima, manje opterećenima gorivom i oružjem, što im smanjuje učinkovitost.

Jedine su zemlje osim SAD-a koje su razvile parne katapulte Brazil i Francuska. Usporedbe radi, više zemalja razvilo je nuklearne podmornice koje mogu lansirati projektile dok su zaronjene nego što ih je razvilo parne katapulte za nosače zrakoplova.

Upravljanje flotom okupljenom oko nosača zrakoplova složen je proces pa su Kinezi učenje odradili na Liaoningu.

No kada je u pitanju novi nosač zrakoplova, mnogo je toga misterij, osim da će imati parni katapult. Nije poznato zbog kojih se strateških ciljeva Kina odlučila na izgradnju novog nosača zrakoplova. Isto tako, ne zna se hoće li pogon biti nuklearni ili na gorivo, pa stručnjaci procjenjuju da prave, funkcionalne nosače zrakoplova s parnim katapultima Kinezi neće imati još dvadesetak godina, dok se proces učenja ne završi.

Naravno, osim ako Peking ne zaključi da se isplati uložiti ogroman novac zbog prestiža koji flota s nosačem zrakoplova nosi zemlji, što također nije nemoguće.

http://www.tportal.hr/


* kineski nosač aviona.jpg (62.24 KB. 630x360 - viewed 78 times.)

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Morskoprase
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2015, 09:46:15 am »

Pa mogao bi naslov I da glasi: "Zašto odgajamo prasiće? Niko ne zna." Više bi bilo na mestu pitanje: Kada će Kina imati barem tri nosaća I tako biti uvek spremna na strategijski konvencionalan odgovor.
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pvanja
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« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2015, 01:02:28 pm »

Recimo osecaju se ugrozeno posto amerikanci imaju 10-tak nosaca aviona i jos toliko desantih nosaca helikoptera.

Zasto niko nije postavljao pitanje sta ce amerikancima tolika vojska pose zavrsetka haldnog rata i zasto za vojsku izdvajaju koliko zajedno 8 zemljaa sa najvisim vojnim budzetima.

Da bi mogli da zavrcu ruku kad ih neko neposlusa kako je izjavio Obama pre neki dan.

Da citiramo Njegosa:
"KOME SNAGA LEŽI U TOPUZU, TRAGOVI MU SMRDE NEČOVJEŠTVOM"

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kumbor
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« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2015, 02:06:00 pm »


To liči na pitanje zašto se mačke i kučići ližu ispod repa ... zato što mogu da dosegnu jezikom. Kina ima veliki izlaz na more i veliku sferu uticaja, normalno je da gradi nosače - boljih kapitalnih brodova danas nema, neće valjda graditi drednote. Sem toga, imaju para da to plate, ali to se i podvodi pod ono da mogu.
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« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2015, 02:44:24 pm »

Cini mi se da je naslov clanka vise usmjeren na privlacenje "sirih narodnih masa".

Osnova je njihova namjera da sagrade nosac i navodna tajnovitost oko toga.
Pitanje je dali ce raditi novi brod ili ce ici u kopiju Ruskog.

Ja sam skloniji ovoj drugoj verziji jer mi se to za prvi pokusaj cini jednostavnije.
Kasnije kad se steknu iskustva lakse je raditi potpuno novi projekt.

poz.

ps. mozda da se naslov promjeni u nesto zgodnije
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« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2015, 03:05:26 pm »

Liaoning, bivši Varjag eksperimentalni je brod za Kineze po mnogo čemu. To je malo usavršeni Kuznjecov, dakle sa već unetim nekim izmenama i poboljšanjima, naročito oko smeštaja u hangaru i manipulacije letelicama na palubi. Mislim da nisu mogli naći bolji način da premoste jaz od dogradnje Varjaga. Uostalom, to nije loš projekat, mada nije optimalan nikad bio. Da li će se kineske parne turbine i kotlovi pokazati boljim od ruskih, videćemo. Cela ta generacija kotlova KVG 98/64 pokazala se loše, naročito što traže specijalnu napojnu vodu i stalnu kontrolu, iako su sa prirodnom, a ne prinudnom cirkulacijom - mada tzv. "visokonaporni", što se odnosi na princip podavanja vazduha, a ne kotlovne vode. Amerikanci su svoju kotlovnu liniju davno zatvorili. Novi kotlovi KVG 4 na Vikramadityi tek treba da se pokažu. Turbine su dobre.
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« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2015, 06:10:06 pm »

Dva članka na temu ovog novog/budućeg Kineskog nosača, oba na engleskom ali koga zanima razumjet će.

------------------------------

Leaked Detail About New Chinese Aircraft Carrier Leaves Bigger Questions Unanswered

By Ryan Faith

February 3, 2015

Earlier this week, China's state media accidentally published a report that mentioned the construction of a new aircraft carrier in Dalian, a city on the East China Sea near the border with North Korea. Dalian is home to a major shipyard that builds a number of different vessels, including warships. An overly excited government official blurted that a local firm was super excited after "winning the contract for China's second aircraft carrier."

Shortly after realizing that this was technically "secret" information, authorities quickly tried to yank the story from news, social media, and other sites. Of course, the officials weren't quite fast enough to prevent people from noticing and getting all wound up.

China's plans for a second (and third and maybe fourth) carrier have been known for a long time. But here's the thing: China already has one aircraft carrier — the Liaoning — a Soviet-built ship that was purchased from Ukraine as a gutted hull. It took ages to refurbish. Hyping up the news that there's a second carrier under construction is like an exposé revealing that there's binge drinking at keg parties.

But while reports about the leak have wrestled mightily with the fact that this news event is a non-event, it does give us an opportunity to figure out what this Chinese aircraft carrier business means and whether we should all be digging a fallout shelter in the backyard or just brushing up on our Mandarin.

Here's what it means: Nobody really knows.

China's carrier ambitions are going to take decades to fully mature. The country's long-term military plans are not immune to the various political, academic, and budgetary debates that plague every military.

It takes many years to master naval aviation. A number of countries have aircraft carriers, but very few harness their full potential. The technology involved is complex and fussy. Those steam-powered catapults that US carriers use to launch planes off the flight deck are immensely expensive and intricate. Brazil and France are the only countries, other than the US, that can even manage to build and operate a steam catapult. More countries have nuclear-powered submarines capable of launching missiles from underwater — no small technological feat — than have steam catapults.

And that only covers takeoffs. Landing essentially requires pilots to intentionally crash their planes to a halt on a tiny moving platform in the middle of an ocean.

There's also the fact that aircraft carriers require a sizable supporting cast of submarines, ships, and aircraft to protect against attacks. All those support vessels need to be refueled and resupplied. The navy needs to learn to coordinate operations with other sea- and land-based forces. That level of integration poses a significant challenge, especially since every nation deploys their carriers differently based on their own national strategic imperatives. China can't just borrow from someone else's playbook. They'll be writing an original composition.

Finally, the Chinese are probably still debating what they want in their carriers. There's likely a discussion over whether the carriers should be nuclear-powered or use diesel fuel. There's a decision to be made about what type of aircraft the ship should carry. There's learning to be done about simple operations, like moving aircraft around the deck efficiently. These issues won't be settled years, perhaps even decades.

The more interesting aspect of the Chinese aircraft carrier news is figuring out the politics behind this huge expenditure and what China thinks their newfound prestige purchase will buy them. But that's a story for another day — or perhaps another accidental Chinese media leak.

https://news.vice.com/

-------------------------

Reports that China is building second aircraft carrier deleted from websites

Social media message from Chinese authority which won contract appears to confirm construction and is then removed


2 February 2015

A firm has won a contract to supply cabling for a second Chinese aircraft carrier, comments by local authorities suggested in the latest sign that Beijing is boosting its maritime power, although news of the development was swiftly deleted online.

Authorities in Changzhou said on a verified social media account that “in 2015, our city will focus on promoting some major programmes”, including Jiangsu Shangshang Cable Group “winning the contract for China’s second aircraft carrier”.

The Changzhou Evening News carried a similar report at the weekend, although both the newspaper article and the post on Sina Weibo, a Twitter-like microblogging service, were deleted shortly after publication.

Neither report gave details of the ship.

China’s first aircraft carrier was purchased from Ukraine through an intermediary and was commissioned in 2012, while the country’s defence spending has been increasing sharply in recent years.

The deputy chief of staff of China’s navy, Song Xue, said in April 2013 that the country “will have more than one aircraft carrier” but left the timing open.

In a subsequent leak, Wang Min - the Communist Party secretary of Liaoning province, where China’s first aircraft carrier is based - said the country was already working on a second ship to be completed around 2020.

Propaganda authorities ordered that all reports of Wang’s remarks be deleted, according to US-based China Digital Times, which monitors censorship in China.

Nevertheless, China’s nationalist commentators quickly responded to the latest reports, calling Monday for more aircraft carriers to be built in the face of “Western-backed provocations”.

“China is now the world’s second-largest economy, but its only flattop is a training ship rebuilt from an ex-Soviet aircraft carrier,” said an op-ed by Sun Xiaobo in the Global Times, which is affiliated with the official Communist Party newspaper, the People’s Daily.

“This is no match to the country’s economic strength.”

Though China’s defence spending is growing by double digits and it has acquired its first aircraft carrier, the country remains far behind the United States in military capacity and reach.

The defence ministry said last week that China’s military training this year will focus on “improving fighting capacity” to win “local wars”, with Beijing embroiled in several territorial disputes.

China has been involved in occasionally tense confrontations with Japan and the Philippines over maritime disputes in the East China Sea and South China Sea respectively, amid fears that the disputes could result in armed clashes.

http://www.theguardian.com/
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« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2015, 07:00:05 pm »

Liaoning, bivši Varjag eksperimentalni je brod za Kineze po mnogo čemu. To je malo usavršeni Kuznjecov, dakle sa već unetim nekim izmenama i poboljšanjima, naročito oko smeštaja u hangaru i manipulacije letelicama na palubi. Mislim da nisu mogli naći bolji način da premoste jaz od dogradnje Varjaga. Uostalom, to nije loš projekat, mada nije optimalan nikad bio. Da li će se kineske parne turbine i kotlovi pokazati boljim od ruskih, videćemo. Cela ta generacija kotlova KVG 98/64 pokazala se loše, naročito što traže specijalnu napojnu vodu i stalnu kontrolu, iako su sa prirodnom, a ne prinudnom cirkulacijom - mada tzv. "visokonaporni", što se odnosi na princip podavanja vazduha, a ne kotlovne vode. Amerikanci su svoju kotlovnu liniju davno zatvorili. Novi kotlovi KVG 4 na Vikramadityi tek treba da se pokažu. Turbine su dobre.

Лијаонинг нема ракете брод-брод.
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« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2015, 07:44:34 pm »

Kina gradi nosac aviona da u tom najvecem brodogradjevnom izazovu implementira vrhunsko tehnolosko znanje sa svim vojnim i geopolitickim posljedicama za pacificki prostor.
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kumbor
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« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2015, 08:03:47 pm »

Liaoning, bivši Varjag eksperimentalni je brod za Kineze po mnogo čemu. To je malo usavršeni Kuznjecov, dakle sa već unetim nekim izmenama i poboljšanjima, naročito oko smeštaja u hangaru i manipulacije letelicama na palubi. Mislim da nisu mogli naći bolji način da premoste jaz od dogradnje Varjaga. Uostalom, to nije loš projekat, mada nije optimalan nikad bio. Da li će se kineske parne turbine i kotlovi pokazati boljim od ruskih, videćemo. Cela ta generacija kotlova KVG 98/64 pokazala se loše, naročito što traže specijalnu napojnu vodu i stalnu kontrolu, iako su sa prirodnom, a ne prinudnom cirkulacijom - mada tzv. "visokonaporni", što se odnosi na princip podavanja vazduha, a ne kotlovne vode. Amerikanci su svoju kotlovnu liniju davno zatvorili. Novi kotlovi KVG 4 na Vikramadityi tek treba da se pokažu. Turbine su dobre.

Лијаонинг нема ракете брод-брод.

Meni inače nikad nije bilo jasno šta će na nosaču moćne rakete P-700-Granit. Varjag je od početka građen bez oklopljenog odseka za rakete Granit.
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lovac
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« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2015, 09:00:04 pm »

Grade ga jer imaju dovoljno para - i da bi vežbali za budućnost!
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« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2015, 10:47:15 pm »

Moje je mišljenje, da je Bazalt u vreme projektiranja nosaća bio jedan od sistema, koji bi mogao da potopi suprotničke brodove. Treba imati na umu, da su palubni lovci Su-33 zbog odsustva parnog katapulta imali bitno smanjen b/k odnosno da su se kasnije pojavile adekvatne protubrodske rakete. Tu pre svega mislim na Kh-35, koji se može normalno okaćiti na sve što poleće sa paluba.
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2015, 10:57:42 pm »

Nosač aviona grade zato što im se može!
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Да ли ћемо још коме сметати зато што смо своји?


« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2015, 08:30:05 am »

Nosač aviona grade zato što im se može!
Evo odgovora sa visokog mesta. Treba doploviti do Morave kanalom iz Soluna.

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