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Author Topic: Question about Partizan Naval Battles during WWII  (Read 42147 times)
 
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2013, 04:10:26 pm »

Sorry for the break.

Here what i've collected for November 1943:

 "  4.november-2 patrol boats attacked MSB Marija and MSB Naprijed in Hvar`s channel that sailed from Metkovic to Split   "
(from forum)
Being on patrol at night line 3 / 4. NB-9 November "Biokovac" south
from Makarska clashed with enemy sailing ship to sail the
Makarska. On the enemy ship opened fire from all weapons. After
short and fierce battles enemy ship was lost in the darkness. NB-9 "Biokovac"
was damaged by the hits on the superstructure and decking, CTS slightly wounded commander.
According to German data, the enemy ship was wounded six moranara
 and one officer. Upon entering the holes in the lining Drasnice shut the crew
marine resources.

(can't remember this source, maybe this same forum).
So basically this engagement was between NB-9 Biokovac  vs MSB Marija and Naprijed.
But from the second description (not 100% clear to me) seems that it was only the partisan boat that took causalties (1 to 6 WIA)
It's however confirmed it was NB-9 involved? and who was the other unit?


5/6 november- in front of Drace harbour PC-61 Udar  after serious battle that included close combat and use of hand granates, forced to retreat MSB Sv.Franjo that transported German troops from Metkovic to Peljesac, German losses were 8 KIA,5 WIA.
Already seen before issue with this engagement that seems have a "twin" one on October, possibly due some mistake on date it's correct or October or November.


11.november- in Srednji channel patrol boats PC-21 Miran and PC-22 Streljko damaged MSB armed with MGs and mortar
Other source:
"...returned to Podgora
 and continued patrolling. In the Neretva Channel, he met with the two hostile
motor sailing vessel with which he led battle. However, enemy ships
were stronger and they could not capture, and with it has already begun to dawn, and NB-9
»Biokovac" sailed in Gradac one wounded sailors. "
Once again it's not clear if the enemy suffered damage&causalities, while partisans suffered 1 WIA



13.november- in air attack damaged patrol boat Partizan 3 and tuna-ship, both were later captured by assault boat and cruiser Niobe,Losinj channel
The official German KTB gives the success at "Cattaro" and torpedo boat "TA-21", saying they "captured several auxiliary sailing vessels that were trying to fled",   among prisoners were also 8 British.



28 November 1943
A not seen event on online source.
The German KTB officially claim that during the nigth the motor torpedo boat S-61 captured and blew up an "auxiliary sailing vessel" 20 miles west of Zara.
No cargo, was sailing to souht.
I guess could have been some supporting boat, or even a civilian one not involved in fight.

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lupodimare89
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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2013, 02:33:20 pm »

Hello back! After some delays due study i've attempted to find some explains for the PC-61 attack against Sv.Franjo (if it happened on October or November).
Reading the German KTB it's reports operations at Split for October, while in November there were operations at Dubrovnik (that's southern and more closer to Peljesac). I've failed to find reports of direct operations at Peljesac but considering the position (and that direct landing were reported at Dubrovnik in November), i GUESS it's more probable that the clash between PC-61 against Sv.Franjo occurred on 5/6 November (and not 5/6 October).

Moreover the German KTB say clearly that the convoy of 2 Siebel armed ferries and 7 I-boats sailing to Dubrovnik was shelled from the closer Mljet island on the November operation, with one Siebel that was damaged by splinters.

Another confirmation came from the 4 November entry: mopping up operations are reported in Peljesac



-----


Some other events in December 1943

German KTB war  diary: page 126 december 1943:   "1 croatian officer escaped report of cutter captured on voyage during night of 2 December."
 http://archive.org/stream/wardiarygermann521943germ#page/126/mode/2up
Supply cutter was on his way from Zara to Sibenic
it's left unclear how and by who the cutter was captured (ground forces? or some naval action?)
The closest thing i've found was an entry on the axishistory forum that said:
"2.december-in Vinisce near Trogir partisans destroyed stranded German boat AZ 3 "


8.december- from Pag island and Prizma SS Istok attacked with small arms fire
This is the entry on axishistory forum, but according the same German KTB:
"supply ship Isto strafed by machine-gun fire."
The ship was reached by the partisan fire, not just attacked.


8/9 December
Already seen capture of MSB Jadro by partisan boats  NB- Biokovac and PC-54 Turist




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lupodimare89
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« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2014, 06:04:06 pm »

Hello, sorry for the long delay due study..

Someone is up to keep on this discussion? I've managed to take a look on other German KTBs
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2015, 07:51:11 am »

Hello! It's a long time I've visited the forum last...

Someone who read these pages (or have info and data about the questions left open) can give an help about the most mysterious stuff?
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2019, 04:44:59 pm »

After some talks with Motorista on PM, i think it can be useful to share some extra data gathered. There are a number of potentially interesting clashes and skirmishes involving Partisans vs occupation forces that have been poorly described on usual open sources internet and apparently not particularly explored either in local sources. I would like to start with an attempted list of all enemy crafts/boats either sunk or seized by Partisan boats in actions.

The actions involve also seizures by parties from Partisan boats, landed on shore.  

List by order of importance/size.

Sorry in advance by possible typo mistakes. Comments/questions/corrections/opinions are welcome!

----------------

Military/armed targets:  10 sinking/seizures.

27/Apr/44 Anti-partisan ship Anton ; by PC-2 Skampo and PC-4 Junak (Seizure - disembarked sailors). Note: become NB-11 Crvena zvijezda.

31/Dec/43 Minelayer Pasman; by NB-3 Jadran (Scuttled - disembarked sailors). Note: most prominent warship by rating/importance on transfer to Croatian Navy. Actual scuttling on 5 January. 24 Germans and 4 Croats POWs.

20/Dec/43 Armed boat HZ-8; by PC-53 Zora (Seizure). Note: action also involved small boats, PC-41 Napredak, PC-42 and PC-43 Napred; Partisan artillery and British MTB -649 motor torpedo boat. Boat become NB-1 Krava.

20/Dec/43 Armed boat HZ-9; by PC-53 Zora (Seizure). Note: action also involved small boats, PC-41 Napredak, PC-42 and PC-43 Napred; Partisan artillery and British MTB -649 motor torpedo boat. Boat become NB-2 Koca.

18/Mar/44 Assault boat KJ-10; by NB-1 Krava and NB-6 Napredak (Seizure). Note: become PC-75-I Annie with unclear fate, possibly sunk on 12/April/44 by friendly fire air attack

24/Jan/44 Tug Costante; by PC-1 Jadran and PC-3 Skampo (Scuttled). Note: tug grounded. Crew captured.

18/Dec/43 Landing craft SF-193; by PC-1 Jadran and PC-3 Skampo (Scuttled/destroyed). Note: shared success, forced to ground by British MTB-637. Partisans attacked from ground. Germans suffered 6 KIA, 11 MIA, 29 rescued. Craft destroyed and cargo lost (24tons of fuel, 800 lifejackets). De-facto second largest officially designed warship sunk by action of Partisan Navy, after Pasman.

24/Dec/43 Unidentified landing craft; by PC-64 Neutralni (Sunk). Note: German KTB indicate two landing boats lost during lading in Korcula Island. So-far only scant details over the whole incidient.

27/Dec/44 Unidentified assault boat; by PC-24 Marjan (Sunk). Note: scarce details.

17/Dec/44 Unidentified "Linse" assault craft; by transport "Lahor" (Seizure). Note: unclear incident. 1 German died on unclear circumstance (shot by partisan or killed by other German officer)



Transport/Supply boats: 25 sinking/seizures

8/Dec/43 Croat boat "Jadro"; by NB-9 Biokovac (Seizure). Note: cargo of 90tons of food. 31 POW.

9/Dec/43 Croat boat "Sv. Nikola"; by NB-6 Napredak (Seizure). Note: cargo:?

9/Oct/44 Aux.boat "Angelina"; NB-13 Partizan and  PC-2 Makola (Sunk). Note: armed boat sunk in gunnery battle. 3 KIA, 9 POW. NB-13 had 2 WIA.

9/Oct/44 Aux.boat "Adriana"; NB-13 Partizan and  PC-2 Makola (Seizure). Note: captured after sinking of "Angelina".

27/Feb/44 Transport boat "Haraelis"; by PC-2 Makola and PC-3 Skampo (Seizure). Note: alongside "Maria Jose" carried troops (120 POW). Note: according a German source she was possibly named "Zara-1" and on tow of Maria Jose. Casualties list also reported as 12 KIA, 24 WIA (captured), and other 95 POWs.

27/Feb/44 Transport boat "Maria Jose"; by PC-2 Makola and PC-3 Skampo (Seizure). Note: alongside "Haraelis" carried troops (120 POW). Note:  according a German source, she was possibly named "Maria Rose". Casualties list also reported as 12 KIA, 24 WIA (captured), and other 95 POWs.

29/Jul/44 boat "Felice"; by PC-2 Makola and PC-4 Junak (Seizure)

28/Feb/44 boat "Giuseppe Cesario", by PC-22 Streljko (Seizure)

6/Apr/44 boat "San Antonio", by PC-21 Marjan and PC-22 Streljko (Seizure)

22/Apr/44 boat "Giuliana", by PC-21 Marjan and PC-22 Streljko (Seizure)

22/Apr/44 boat "Emilia", by PC-21 Marjan and PC-22 Streljko (Seizure)

(Note: following victims occurred before 8 September 1943, during Italian occupation):

1/Jan/43 boat "Europa", by unidentified patrol boat (Seizure). Note: become Partisan patrol boat "Partizan" lost by Italian seaplane on February

22/Jan/43 boat "Giuditta", by unidentified patrol boat (Scuttled)

22/Mar/43 boat "Maria Luisa", by unidentified patrol boat (Scuttled). Note: attacked alongside "Renato".

22/Mar/43 boat "Renato", by unidentified patrol boat (Scuttled). Note: attacked alongside "Maria Luisa".

14/Apr/43 boat "Africano", by unidentified patrol boat (Seizure)

21/Jul/43 unidentified boat, by unidentified patrol boat (Seizure)

23/May/42 boat "Mira", by unidentified fishing boat (Seizure)

11/Aug/42 boat "Dux", by unidentified fishing boat (Seizure)

18/Nov/42 unidentified boat, by unidentified fishing boat (Seizure)

31/Dec/42 boat "Istok", by two unidentified fishing boats (Seizure). Note: possibly the multiple successes of 31/Dec/42 scored by boat "Pionir"?)

31/Dec/42 boat "Madre Giovanna", by two unidentified fishing boats (Seizure)

31/Dec/42 boat "Otac Vladimir", by two unidentified fishing boats (Seizure)

31/Dec/42 boat "Zdravlje", by two unidentified fishing boats (Seizure)

31/Dec/42 boat "Sveti Ante", by two unidentified fishing boats (Seizure)






« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 04:53:34 pm by lupodimare89 » Logged
Perun
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2019, 05:24:03 pm »

Mozda ovo koristi:

* jubileji-partizanska-ratna-mornarica.pdf (298.75 KB - downloaded 29 times.)


Imama par dobrih knjiga na tu temu ali nisam doma. Kad se vratim pogledat cu pa mozda bude od neke koristi

* jubileji-partizanska-ratna-mornarica.pdf (298.75 KB - downloaded 29 times.)
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2019, 10:24:22 am »

Thank you very much for the contribution! From the text it appears clear that the "first" Fleet (late 1942 - fall 1943) included three boats and not two ("Pionir", "Partizan" and "Proletar"). Origin of "Proletar" are not much clear, i suspect could be the boat "Giuditta" captured on 22 January 1943 but maybe it was something else.

Also from the file it is clear how it was "Pionir" responsable for the multiple seizures occurred on 31 December 1942, and the single seizure of 1 January 1943 (boat "Europa", become "Partizan").
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2020, 09:43:32 am »

I guess it's better writing here, hoping to find people knowing more of the subject. Recently i came across some interesting lines of text concerning the passage of ships and boats from the exiled Yugoslavian Royal Navy to the Partisan Yugoslavian Navy. While most ships were transfered around August 1945 (so after the end of hostilities) one detail it's this:

Quote
On 7 March 1945, the king dissolved the government and disbanded the armed forces, proclaiming Tito's Partisans on the ground to be the sole legitimate government and military. In March 1945, all Royal Yugoslav vessels assembled at Ancona in preparation for the handover to Tito's forces, which occurred in August.
So... first of all the Royal Navy was nominally dissolved at that date, while this probably left the ships in a sort-of "limbo", there is a couple of war episodes happend AFTER this date.

Quote
In mid-March 1945 2nd squad received orders to return from Livorno to Malta. Previously, the British decided that all eight ships cede RM NLA. Crews were given the choice - or to voluntarily join the NLA and return to Yugoslavia, or to accept exile. After the royalists abandoned ships, 4 Higgins and yacht "White Eagle", renamed "mountain" under the new Yugoslav flags were sent to Ancona, with a mission to combat cooperation in operations liberation of the Dalmatian coast. During April, the remaining 4 ships joining battalion in Ancona for the first time actively cooperate with the partisan forces during the attack on the island of Rab and Krk. Meanwhile, members of the unit who had remained loyal to the royal crown, were transferred from Malta to Alexandria, where they are discharged from active service.

These lines seems to indicate that Indeed the "Beli Orao" support ship and four (later all) of the "Higgins" PT-201,204,207, 208, 209, 211, 213 and 217 indeed OPERATED for the Partisan Navy since April 1945!   First questions: it is known exactly which crafts first joined in March and which during April?
There are known details of the Higgins operations in April around Rab and Krk islands?

I may guess the crafts retained the old American names, rather than having already the "MTP-1 to MTP-8" official early Yugoslavian naming, likely assigned only in August 1945

Personally i think to have found a single surface action that involved these crafts:
(German text 1)
- 17./18.04.1945 Angriff des brit. MTB 409 auf einen Verband mit 3 MFP und 5 Leichtern bei Umago (südl. Triest.). Ein MFP wird mit Torpedos versenkt. Einen 2. Anlauf unternehmen 2 jugosl. MGB 217 und 207, letzteres wird durch Abwehrfeuer des Gegners beschädigt (1 Toter). Der Angriff wird daraufhin abgebrochen.[2]
(German text 2):
16./17.04.1945 Britisches MTB 409 (zusammen mit den jugosl. Booten PC 217 und 207) torpediert bei Umago (Istrien) einen Verband von 3 MFP und 5 Leichtern, und versenkt 1 MFP. In einem 2. Anlauf liefern sich die jugoslawischen Boote ein Gefecht mit den MFP. Auf PC 207 Treffer und Verwundete, woraufhin sich die jugosl. Boote zurückziehen.[2]

Contrary to the British claim, no German MFP is so-far reported sunk or damaged in action. The overhall actions seems a British-Yugoslavian failure, even if obviously it was just a minor skirmish, even if costed the life of 1 seaman.

I have found a further British description of the event that seems however contraddictory!
Quote
Back in action, Holloway distinguished himself when on 16 April 1945, as flotilla commanding officer of the 28th in HM MTB 409, he attacked a convoy of German E-boats ("Enemy war motor boats") and barges, sinking one of them. He had to take special care since he had under his command two Royal Yugoslav Navy motor gunboats and was under orders not to let their crews be captured by their opponents, the partisans of Marshal Tito. The MTBs worked with both these factions, Tito's men often serving as ship's pilots. In the same week, on 11 April, Holloway had been one of the skippers, in three MTBs under Charles Jerram, who sank five heavily armoured Flak lighters (cargo and troop-carriers with anti-aircraft guns) with six torpedoes, each MTB having only two.

I suspect this line of text came out after some subsequent Cold-War era writing: the line is questionable because de-facto the Yugoslavian Royal Navy was no more, and the British (and the King) seems to endorse the transfer. Moreover the text include abundant over-claim that cannot be fully proved.

 
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2020, 10:07:58 pm »

Again sorry for my new message in english-only, but i think to have found traces of an incident that i would like to understand better.

Quote
Br. 207. 10. V. At our headquarters found P.O.S. lazi se kap. Lorimer with 4 soldiers and 2 radio stations, Major Braumont Onesbitt with one lieutenant and one frigate lieutenant, Capt. Ramsay, one amer. lieutenant with one Yugoslav non-commissioned officer, amer. Lieutenant Rourke with 3 Yugoslavs. All of these except Lorimer and their group are returning to Vis tonight. Today received over r. stations from Krk notice that the 6th V is our strike group on Krk. in Omišalj, sank the steamship Plav. 392 of the Legionary Division, No. 39 14, k. 18 in the Archives of the Historical Institute of the JNA.)
Also in Italian
Quote
Le navi armate della Marina partigia-na conseguirono un successo la sera del 6 maggio mandando a fondo il pi-roscafo Albona a Omisalj (Veglia).

The big issue/point of interest it's which Partisan crafts NB/PC engaged the boat (or ship? from description seems indeed a relatively bigger steamship) "Albona".
Or maybe it was an attack committed by ground forces with artillery rom the island? I found no possible connection with the old list of Jugoslavian actions i had on 6 May 1944.
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Perun
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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2020, 06:26:05 am »

Za Plav:

Opis:
U luci Omišalj (na o. Krku) udarna grupa 1. udarne brigade 13. divizije NOVJ potopila nemački parobrod -Plav- a posadu zarobila.
Datum: 6. 5. 1944. (napomena: neki datumi su okvirni)
Oblast: Dalmacija
Izvor: Hronologija narodnooslobodilačkog rata 1941-1945
URL: http://znaci.net/00001/53.htm
Oznake: Omiš ★ Krk ★ Borbe na Jadranu 1944. ★ Borbe u Hrvatskoj 1944. ★

http://znaci.net/arhiv/dogadjaj/1833
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lupodimare89
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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2020, 09:23:06 am »

Thank you very much Perun! So it was clearly an assault by ground forces and not a naval engagements.
I didn't know that site! I will eventually explore it more, in search of other naval events
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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2020, 10:12:23 am »

No problem mate
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