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Author Topic: Iraqi MiGs in Yugoslavia  (Read 35040 times)
 
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« on: January 08, 2015, 11:35:51 pm »

Hi,

What is known about foreign MiG-21 and MiG-23 aircraft at ZMAJ service and repair institute?

I know some Iraqi AF, Libyan AF and Sudan AF aircraft did underwent maintenance at Zmaj.
I have seen pictures of Libyan AF MiG-21bis 209, Sudanese AF MiG-21US 300 and Iraq AF MiG-23ML 23269.

In July 1991 there were 56 aircraft of different types in the "ZMAJ" institute: 13 aircraft in working order were transferred in July 1991, while
43 non-operational aircraft were evacuated along with all spare parts, i.e. 1,329 components, in the first half of December 1991.

"ZMAJ" was evacuated, pursuant to the agreement cosigned by the representatives of the European Community Monitoring Mission (ECMM), who were responsible for its implementation. Is there an information about these 56 aircraft?



Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 11:47:55 pm »

Most of those aircraft evacuated had been YAF aircraft.

As I know, only IQAF MiG-21SMT (but equivalent to bis variant) and MiG-23s were overhauled at Zmaj in 1991.

Moma Stanojlović Air Force Technical MRO Institute at Batajnica has completed overhaul of YAF aircraft transfered from Zmaj Air Force Technical MRO Institute while IQAF fihgters were preserved in storage or conserved for long-term open storage.

Let me take few minutes I'll try to find precise numbers.
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 12:19:38 am »

10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269,  23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj for mid-level overhaul. Out of these aircraft only 23269 has been overhauld. That MiG-23 flew to Željava AFB and than to Batajnica AFB by pilot Omer Avdaković. Aircraft was handed over to Moma Stanojlović Air Force Technical MRO Institute, while other 23s were put in storage at 160th Logistic Support Base at Pančevo, city near Belgrade. For some time, 23269 formed part of the open exibition of the YAF Museum at Nikola Tesla Int'l. Now it is in Moma Stanojlović Depot.

Regarding 21s, only 8 Iraqi MiG-21SMT remained in Yugoslavia. As I said, despite SMT designation they are actually bis variant with addition of air condition system. During NATO aggresion against the FRY radars were stripped from IQAF MiGs and used for imitation of AD radars. Also airframes were put to visible locations as baits imitating FRYAF Fishbeds but they were recognised because of their camuflage so none has been destroyed. They are now in Moma Stanojlović Depot but in poor state. Iraqi officials were briefly interested in them but lost interest after inspection of the state of aircraft and after they were informed on possibilities and cost to back them in flyable condition.
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SvetoJ
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 10:37:00 am »

10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269,  23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj f.
It is not 23272 but 23282
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2015, 01:25:19 pm »

10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269,  23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj f.
It is not 23272 but 23282

Thanks for this update.


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2015, 01:36:06 pm »

10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269,  23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj for mid-level overhaul. Out of these aircraft only 23269 has been overhauld. That MiG-23 flew to Željava AFB and than to Batajnica AFB by pilot Omer Avdaković. Aircraft was handed over to Moma Stanojlović Air Force Technical MRO Institute, while other 23s were put in storage at 160th Logistic Support Base at Pančevo, city near Belgrade. For some time, 23269 formed part of the open exibition of the YAF Museum at Nikola Tesla Int'l. Now it is in Moma Stanojlović Depot.

Regarding 21s, only 8 Iraqi MiG-21SMT remained in Yugoslavia. As I said, despite SMT designation they are actually bis variant with addition of air condition system. During NATO aggresion against the FRY radars were stripped from IQAF MiGs and used for imitation of AD radars. Also airframes were put to visible locations as baits imitating FRYAF Fishbeds but they were recognised because of their camuflage so none has been destroyed. They are now in Moma Stanojlović Depot but in poor state. Iraqi officials were briefly interested in them but lost interest after inspection of the state of aircraft and after they were informed on possibilities and cost to back them in flyable condition.

Many many thanks for the MiG-23 serial numbers. If you lived in my neighbourhood I would buy you a pivo. Wink

Is this "Iraqi episode" still a secret? It would be nice if we can have access to official documents which also contain the construction numbers and other details about these MiG-23 aircraft. 

I have found a wikileaks document about this subject.
http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BELGRADE990_a.html

You are talking about 8 MiG-21 aircraft. In the wikileaks the talk about six or seven MiG-21 aircraft.


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2015, 02:15:42 pm »

As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD.

Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs

In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rs

I've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago.
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2015, 02:59:39 pm »

10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269,  23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj f.
It is not 23272 but 23282

Thanks for this update.


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland

23272 was captured by US Forces at al-Bakr AB in 2003.
al-Bakr AB was known by the US Forces as Joint Base Balad (the new name for what used to be called Balad Air Base by the Air Force and Logistics Support Area Anaconda by the Army).


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2015, 04:14:04 pm »

As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD.

Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs

In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rs

I've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago.

I have the following MiG-21 serials:
S/n      C/n
21138   unknown
21168   75044485
21174   unknown
21177   unknown
21186   unknown
21190   unknown
21198   75070204
21204   75071709
21206   75071395
21285   unknown

There are some mistakes in this list. 10 MiG-21 aircraft is just to much.
Who can shed some light on this matter 


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 01:11:12 pm »

As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD.

Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs

In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rs

I've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago.

I have the following MiG-21 serials:
S/n      C/n
21138   unknown
21168   75044485
21174   unknown
21177   unknown
21186   unknown
21190   unknown
21198   75070204
21204   75071709
21206   75071395
21285   unknown

There are some mistakes in this list. 10 MiG-21 aircraft is just to much.
Who can shed some light on this matter 


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland


Seems the mentioned serials are correct according the article in the March 2010 issue of AFM (written by Aleksander Radic).

One addition, an other c/n is 75064888. No s/n-c/n tie-up  Angry


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Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 02:54:53 pm »

Well, it seems that only God Almighty knows everything about those jets.

I've found some concerning work done on these aircraft.

MiG-21IQ
21168 overhauled
21198 overhauled
21204 overhauled
21206 overhauled
21186 overhaul was near complete
21174 half work done
21177 half work done
21190 half work done
21138 nothing done
21285 Huh?

MiG-23ML
23269 overhaul complete Pictured in 1997 with serial 21186. According to Radić's article in Arsenal 57/2011 production no. is 25056.
23292 overhauled 70%
23267 overhauled 60%
23260 overhauled 55%
23272 overhauled 2%
23252 overhauled 6%
other between 30 and 45%

Only real option in my opinion is to restore this complete MiG-23 and a MiG-21 and put them to Museum.

If you have someone who speak Serbian here you can find another Radić's article on MiG-23 23269:
odbrana.mod.gov.rs
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SvetoJ
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 07:03:26 pm »

As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD.

Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs

In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rs

I've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago.

I have the following MiG-21 serials:
S/n      C/n
21138   unknown
21168   75044485
21174   unknown
21177   unknown
21186   unknown
21190   unknown
21198   75070204
21204   75071709
21206   75071395
21285   unknown

There are some mistakes in this list. 10 MiG-21 aircraft is just to much.
Who can shed some light on this matter  


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland


Jeroen, according yugoslav sources there are 10 MiG-21bis + 10 Mig-23ML but i think that only 8 MiG-21 are really exisiting in Serbia today .It was planed to recive 24 iraqi MiG-21bis for overhaul (and some other types latter in 1991) - from these 24 planes some were overhauled and returned to Irak , other actually never arrived to Zmaj and they exist only on paper (as planed for overhaul but acctually never came into overhaul plant).Beside these four planes from your list(168,198,204,206 wich you probably saw in MoST durring airshow in 2012 ) wich were actually overhauled and serviced  by YAF personell for some time,only another four are stored in Serbia today : 174,177,186,190. To be 100% sure try to get infromation from arms control inspection wich is visiting Serbia since 1996. Smiley - we have no secrets Wink
Best regards
Svetozar Yokanovich
P.S. MiG-23 "ML" are probaly produced as MLA but it is not possible to investigate this here becouse  its electronic equipment was not planned for overhaul so there is no tehnical documentation its radar ... Zmaj called them MiG-23ML
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 07:17:21 pm by SvetoJ » Logged
Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 11:37:37 am »

Hi,

In the recently released book "MiG-23 Flogger in the Middle East" some new information about MiG-23ML 23260 was revealed.

The highest scorer Iraqi MiG-23ML (with 2 kill markings) was 2560. This MiG-23ML was re-serialed as 23260.

According to my information the following former Iraqi MiG-23ML aircraft were sent to Zmaj for overhaul:
23252
23260
23267
23269
23278
23279
23282
23288
23290
23292

Except for 23269, are all the remaing aircraft still stored in a warehouse at the 160th Logistic Support Base in Pančevo?


Rgd,
Jeroen Nijmeijer
Holland
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Jeroen Nijmeijer
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2018, 12:17:23 pm »

Well, it seems that only God Almighty knows everything about those jets.

I've found some concerning work done on these aircraft.

MiG-21IQ
21168 overhauled
21198 overhauled
21204 overhauled
21206 overhauled
21186 overhaul was near complete
21174 half work done
21177 half work done
21190 half work done
21138 nothing done
21285 Huh?

MiG-23ML
23269 overhaul complete Pictured in 1997 with serial 21186. According to Radić's article in Arsenal 57/2011 production no. is 25056.
23292 overhauled 70%
23267 overhauled 60%
23260 overhauled 55%
23272 overhauled 2%
23252 overhauled 6%
other between 30 and 45%

Only real option in my opinion is to restore this complete MiG-23 and a MiG-21 and put them to Museum.

If you have someone who speak Serbian here you can find another Radić's article on MiG-23 23269:
odbrana.mod.gov.rs

Some time ago, a non painted former Iraqi MiG-21bis was seen stored at Batajnica. It had c/n 75064888.
Could this be serial 21186?Huh?Huh?


Rgd,
Jeroen
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