Изработка на цевка за пушка

[gocemk]

Начин на изработка на цевка од  дамаскин челик кон почетокот на 20 век ако некој се бави со ковање можи и да проба
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[lovac]

Dmask cevi su pravljene od žice, motanjem oko kalibrisanog metalnog šiljka. Tako se radilo sve dok se tehnologija hladnog kovanja cevi nije usavršila.

Ako se ne varam, i topopvske cevi za glavne topove bojnih brodova prošlog veka su pravljeni od žice, na ovaj načim.

[gocemk]

Topovitge gi izrabotruvale na drug nacin sdo prsteni drug pat za to inaku najgolem del  od topovite od 15 vek pa do  od sreinata na 19 vek se izrabotuvni so lienje na bronza


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[lovac]

Govorim o brodskim topovima na velikim bojnim brodovima, koji su građeni u periodu 1. i između dva velika rata.
Video sam negde snimak da su pravljeni na sličan način kao damask cevi - motanjem žice oko navlake. Pokušaću da nađem i da potvrdim.

Ranije tokom istorije topova, cevi su se pravile livenjem.

[gocemk]

Govorim o brodskim topovima na velikim bojnim brodovima, koji su građeni u periodu 1. i između dva velika rata.
Video sam negde snimak da su pravljeni na sličan način kao damask cevi - motanjem žice oko navlake. Pokušaću da nađem i da potvrdim.

Ranije tokom istorije topova, cevi su se pravile livenjem.

Da i deneska nekoj kompani uste primenuvat takva tehnika no vo 19 vek se pojavuat i drugi  tehnologi ednata e prvo liele celicna cevka a potoa stavata lucilidnri okolu cevkata od kovana zelezo ovaa se primenuva od 1870 pa se do 1890 godina , po 1890 godina primenuvat lienje na celicna cevka i dur e usviten i zeska kompresiranje so golem hidroulcki presi od nekolku iljadi toni mislam postapkata se pravi vo samiot metalen kalap.

Eve videoto sto go barase ti
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[MOTORISTA]

Video sam negde snimak da su pravljeni na sličan način kao damask cevi - motanjem žice oko navlake.

Fretovane cevi. Objašnjeno je u VE, knjiga 2 strane 164 i 165. Ukoliko nemaš videću da nađem na netu.

[gocemk]

Video sam negde snimak da su pravljeni na sličan način kao damask cevi - motanjem žice oko navlake.

Fretovane cevi. Objašnjeno je u VE, knjiga 2 strane 164 i 165. Ukoliko nemaš videću da nađem na netu.

ako mozis postiraj 

nacin na izrabotka na top od 15 vek od kovani zelezni prsteni

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[MOTORISTA]

Nema na netu. Fotkao sam sa mobilnim, tako da je kvalitet

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[kumbor]

Govorim o brodskim topovima na velikim bojnim brodovima, koji su građeni u periodu 1. i između dva velika rata.
Video sam negde snimak da su pravljeni na sličan način kao damask cevi - motanjem žice oko navlake. Pokušaću da nađem i da potvrdim.

Ranije tokom istorije topova, cevi su se pravile livenjem.

Do kraja Prvog svetskog rata i dvadesetih godina naporedo su postojala dva tehnološka postupka izrade cevi velikih, najčešće brodskih, topova - engleski Woolwich -Vulvič - Vikers sistem i krupov sistem. Kod vulvičskog- vikersovog sistema postojala je unutrašnja cev topa oko koje se obmotavala posebna čelična žica ili sajla. Za jedan top 15in.-381mm trošilo se oko 150km tako upletene žice u više slojeva. Zatim se na tu konstrukciju navlačila spoljna cev.Cev po vulvičskom principu je elastična, ali teža, pri paljbi duže vibrira, a sa vremenom može doći do progiba-krivljenja cevi. Kod krupovog sistema se više delova cevi dobija centrifugalnim livenjem, u zavisnosti od varijante može biti nekoliko umetnutih cevi. Zatim se cevi dodatno otkivaju i konačno spajaju umetanjem i naizmeničnim grejanjem i hlađenjem. Postojalo je više načina umetanja košuljice. Krupov sistem je napredniji i tridesetih godina je preovladao, jer je takva cev ipak čvršća, nije sklona krivljenju  a i nešto je lakša. Možda sam nešto i pobrkao, jer sa metalurgijom topova nemam bele veze, ali nadam se da je bar u osnovi tačno ovo što sam napisao. Od modernih novogradnji BB u WWII "žičanu" konstrukciju je imao samo top 460mm na Yamato i Musashi. Top 356mm. na BB klase  KGV je prvi engleski teški top novije konstrukcije. Takvi su svi topovi novih američkih BB u WWII, nemački i italijanski. Francuski topovi 330 i 380mm imali su posebno složenu konstrukciju. Nešto o konstrukciji topova može se naći na sajtu www.navweaps.com (na engleskom), kao i sumarni podaci strukture za svaki top. Takođe kod: "Naval weapons of WWII" - Campbell.

[kumbor]

 Da ne pričam napamet, copy-pastovao sam ovde odeljak o konstrukciji brodskih topova sa "navweaps.com". odeljak je poduži i na engleskom je. Da ga ne bih prevodio, a mnogi znaju solidno engleski ... evo, pa čitajte. Opet, mislim da ne bi bilo dobro staviti u podforum na engleskom, jer je reč o pitanju koje je pomalo specijsalističko.


Gun Construction

Autofrettage - A process in which a favorable distribution of initial or residual stress in a tube is induced, as in the manufacturing of gun barrels. Literally means "self-hooping" and the process involves expanding a partially machined barrel or liner by applying hydraulic pressure to the interior surface. The metal of the bore is the first to be stretched beyond the elastic limit. The process is continued until the metal at the outer surface just reaches its elastic limit. At this point, the increase of hydraulic pressure in the bore is halted and soon afterwards the pressure is reduced to zero. Since the metal at the bore has received a certain amount of plastic deformation, it would, if left free to do so, retain all of this "set." However, since the metal at the outer surface has received no permanent set, but only a strain within the elastic limit, it attempts to return to its original diameter. The metal between the bore and the outer surface has received some plastic deformation, decreasing outward. The final result is that the bore is forced back to a diameter somewhere between the original diameter and that which was attained under the maximum hydraulic pressure. Thus, the bore has received a certain amount of tangential tension, exactly as in the case of a built-up gun, but with the difference that the autofrettage process results in a indefinite number of layers, each infinitesimal in thickness, and having varying stresses which result in producing the maximum possible strength in the finished gun. This process allows steels with low alloy content to be used to make gun barrels. During the 1920s and 1930s, the US Navy termed this process "manufacture by radial expansion."

Bag Guns - Weapons that used powder bags rather than a cartridge case to hold the propellant. This was the most common ammunition type of the twentieth century for 6 inch (15.2 cm) and larger guns. Guns using powder bags were designated as "Separate Loading" in the USN, a reference to the normal procedure for bag guns of first ramming the projectile and then the powder bags. Smaller calibers generally use a single bag while larger calibers may have as many as six bags. See "Bag Ammunition" on the Ammunition Definitions data page for additional information.

Bayonet Joint - An interrupted-thread method of attaching the gun barrel to the housing in order to make for easier barrel replacements. For many USN guns designed for case ammunition, the housing took the place of the yoke and screw-box liner used on bag guns. This construction method allowed the elimination of the slide cylinder in some weapons.

Barrel Length / Bore Length - One of the more confusing items about gun designations is that the way that the length (calibers) of a gun barrel is measured differs from nation to nation. The USA measured starting from the inner breech face for both bag and cartridge guns. Austria-Hungary (Skoda), Germany and Russia measured the length of the entire barrel. Britain, France, Italy, Japan and Sweden (Bofors) measured starting from the top of the mushroom head (vent axial) of the breech block for bag guns and starting from the inner breech face for cartridge guns. These differing methods have often resulted in nomenclature errors in reference works. For example, the 38 cm SK C/34 guns on the German battleship Bismarck are often noted as being 47 calibers long. Per the German method - overall barrel length - these guns were 51.66 calibers long and per the British/USA method - measured from the inner breech face - they were 48.3 calibers long. As every German document I have seen refers to these guns as being the equivalent of either 51.66 or 52 calibers long, I am not certain why so many authors refer to these guns as being 47 calibers long. My thanks to M.J. Whitley, whose series of books on German Warships of World War II first enlightened me on how the German methods differed from those of other nations. On my webpages, "Gun Length oa" refers to the overall barrel length. "Bore length" is per each nation's specification except where noted.

Built-up Construction - Guns that are manufactured from multiple hoops (tubes) which are joined together with locking rings and overlapping sections to make longer and/or thicker sections. This was the most common process for manufacturing almost all guns until the 1920s when monobloc techniques were introduced for guns smaller than about 6 inches (15.2 cm). See "Monobloc" and "Wire-Wound" below.

Gun_Data_built-up_pic.jpg

Cartridge Guns - Weapons in which a metallic container, usually brass or steel, is used to hold the propellant. Most commonly used for "Quick Firing" and automatic weapons.

Hoop or Tube - A section of the gun barrel. See "Built-up Construction," "Monobloc Construction" and "Wire-wound Construction."

Liner - A replaceable tube within the gun barrel. The useful life of a gun is measured by how much rifling remains. By having the rifling milled into a replaceable liner, the life of the gun barrel itself is increased by many times. A "Loose Liner" or "Loose Barrel Construction" means that the gun was built with a small clearance between the outer diameter of the liner and the inner diameter of the next outer part. When firing, the gas pressure elastically expands the liner but otherwise the clearance remains. This method of construction makes it easy to replace the liner after removal of the locking devices. The replacement method for standard liners is much more complicated. The USN used a "gun pit" into which the barrel was lowered. Heat was then applied to the outside of the barrel while cold air or water was pumped through the bore. The result was that the barrel expanded while the liner contracted, thus opening a small clearance around the liner. The liner could then be extracted from the barrel by hydraulic jacks. Liners are usually coated with graphite in an effort to ease assembly and disassembly.

Locking Ring - A short cylindrical casting used for joining gun barrel tubes together. See "Hoop" above.

Monobloc Construction - A gun built from a single tube apart from the breech-ring and breech mechanism rather than a multi-tube built-up design. During the 1920s, when centrifugal spun castings came into being, it became possible to make cylindrical castings with a precise wall thickness and density with no cracks. The inside diameter of these spun castings could be controlled to the point where very little machining had to be done to true-up the inside diameter. The general process was to make three tubes; the gun barrel itself, the breech ring and a liner, which together made up the gun barrel. These three tubes were assembled onto each other, usually by autofretting techniques, with the breech ring making a thicker and thus stronger section at the breech end of the gun. Later designs for guns smaller than about 6 inches (15.2 cm) further simplified the manufacturing process by eliminating the separate liner. Monobloc construction makes for a straighter, stronger barrel than does built-up construction and overcomes some of the problems with having to make one solid casting with a thickening at the breech. This older style of casting had cooling problems due to the uneven wall thickness which could lead to cracks developing.

Wire-wound Construction - A method of strengthening built-up gun barrels by using long lengths of wire wrapped around an inner tube. This method of construction was used extensively by the British roughly between 1880 and 1925. Few nations other than Japan adopted this technique as it greatly complicated the manufacturing process. The wire was about 0.1 inches (2.5 mm) thick and had a rectangular cross-section or was sometimes ribbon-shaped. The wire was quite strong with tensile strengths of up to 200,000 psi (14,000 kg/cm2) and very long lengths of wire were used. For example, the British 15-in/42 Mark I used about 170 miles (274 km) of wire on top of the "A" tube. A "B" tube was then shrunk on overtop the wire-wound section. It should be noted that wire-winding strengthened the gun barrel only in regards to resisting the gas pressure generated by the burning propellant. There is some controversy as to whether or not this type of construction weakened the overall barrel strength and increased the amount of muzzle droop. The British gradually replaced wire-winding construction with monobloc and built-up construction techniques and by 1930 no longer used it all. The last Japanese weapon using wire-winding was the 46 cm Type 94 guns used on the Yamato class battleships.

[lovac]

Ako sam dobro shvatio svi veliki topovi britanskih bojnih brodova potekli iz 1. sv rata imali su žicom motaner cevi (mislim na glavnu artiljeriju od 380 mm).
Brodovi klase KG V su imali topove novije konstrukcije, pa je to kod njih promenjeno.

Ali šta je sa Vanguardom? On je, iako je poslednji britanski bojni brod, dobi stare topove od 380 mm. 

[kumbor]

Vanguard je imao stare, proverene topove 381mm - tačno 15in. Iako "žičane konstrukcije", te su topove Englezi smatrali vrhunskim, kao i mehanizam kupole. Lafet i kupola bili su oznake mk1N (new) - modernizovani, elevacije povećane do 30*, pojačanog oklopa, jer su to bile kupole sa Courageousa i Gloriousa - "lakih bojnih krstaša" malog gaza, specijalno projektovanih za dejstva u Baltiku - a kasnije pregrađenih u NA.

Topovi za Nelsona i Rodneya - 16in, imali su takođe oznaku MkI i bili su takođe klasične engleske konstrukcije, projektovani za nove bojne krstaše G3. BB klase N3 trebalo je da imaju topove 18in. - 457mm. Sve ih je "sahranila" vašingtonska konferencija o ograničenju naoružanja.

[gocemk]

Во 17 век во европа и во азија се појавиле така наречени кожни топови или топови изработени од бакарна цевка а потоа е ставено околу таа цевка неколку слоја на кожа

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[kumbor]

При чему кожа на топовима није ни на који начин доприносила чврстоћи топа, већ само удобности употребе од стране посаде.

[gocemk]

Idejata za ovie topovi ja dal svedskiot kral  gustav vo 17 vek koj sakal da napravi lesen top za konjanicata no i za pesadijata osobeno da mozi nekolku pesaci da go turnat topot do mestot kade ke dejstuvav so cel da ne se raspadni koznata cevka tie vnatre stavle bakarna cevka napraven od bakaren lim , dodeka kozata zalepana vo nekolku sloevi a potoa prvrzana so konop davala dovolno cvrstina no imalo eden problem dostal elsno se zagrevala bakarnata cevka i taa se topela .Istata ideja za vakvak cevka podocna ja zema jucin stoner pri razvojot na ar-10 tenka celicna cevka obvitkana so kompoziten materijali i vlakna za cvrstina

www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/leather-cannon-lethality