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Author Topic: Sudar tankera i ratnog broda  (Read 21979 times)
 
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tihi
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« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2018, 07:37:00 am »

Ja verujem da Rusija ima tehnologiju da ometa GPS na jako velikim daljinama, opet, GPS dolazi sa stelita, i nije nemoguce da Rusi imaju ometace na svojim satelitima. Bilo bi racionalno posedovati takvu tehnologiju. E sada, da su bas Rusi sa zlim Putinom namerno sabotirali hi-tec Norveski brod, i poslali tanker na njega da ga potopi, to ni Tolkin nije mogao da smisli uz svu svoju bujnu mastu. Ovde je samo i iskljucivo krivica na posadi Norveske fregate. Cao i da jesu Rusi ometali GPS, opet je iskljuciva odgovornost posade broda.
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2018, 08:34:43 am »

Mala analiza.

Quote

Warnings and confusion preceded Norwegian frigate disaster: here’s what we know

By: David B. Larter  and Sebastian Sprenger     5 days ago
 
The Royal Norwegian Navy was dealt a devastating blow in the early morning hours of November 10 when one of its five capital Nansen-class frigates collided with a fully loaded oil tanker more than 10 times its size while returning NATO’s Trident Juncture exercise.

The frigate Helge Ingstad lost steering and drifted at five knots onto the rocky shore near Norwegian port of Sture, north of Bergen, saving the ship from sinking in the Fjord, according to media reports. The crew of 137 was forced to abandon ship. Ingstad is now resting on its side on three points while crews move to secure it.

The disaster has far-reaching consequences for the Norwegian Navy, which is facing the loss of one of its premier warfighting assets,

“This is a huge blow to the Norwegian navy,” said Sebastian Bruns, who heads the Center for Maritime Strategy and Security at the University of Kiel in northern Germany. The loss of the $400 million ship, which appeared likely, leaves the Norwegian Navy with a 20 percent cut to its most advanced class of ship, Burns said.

The situation is made all the more painful as evidence mounts that Ingstad was repeatedly warned to alter course before the collision and failed to take corrective action to avoid the collision.

Local media reported that the Maltese-flagged tanker Sola TS identified Ingstad and tried to avoid the disaster. The reports also revealed details that show that Ingstad did not have a firm grasp of the surface picture it was sailing into.

The disaster developed quickly, with Ingstad transiting the channel inbound at 17 knots and Sola TS traveling outbound at 7 knots.

Sola TS raised the Ingstad multiple times and was discussing the emerging danger with shore-based Central Station, according to the Norwegian paper Verdens Gang. The responses from Ingstad appear confused, at one point saying that if they altered the course it would take them too close to the shoals, which prompted Sola TS to respond that they had to do something or a collision would be unavoidable.

Contributing to the confusion, the Ingstad appears to have been transiting with its Automatic Identification System switched off. That seems to have delayed recognition by central control and the other ships in the area that Ingstad was inbound and heading into danger, the account in VG seems to indicate.

The AIS being off recalls the collision of the U.S. destroyer Fitzgerald in 2017. Fitzgerald inadvertently crossed an outbound shipping channel with its AIS turned off, which the U.S. Navy found was a contributing factor in the collision.

The Norwegian military has repeatedly declined to comment on the sequence of events, citing an ongoing investigation by an accident investigation panel.

Mismatch

While much remains unknown about the collision details, the extent of the damage to the Ingstad appeared consistent with the sheer size mismatch between the tanker and the warship, several European subject matter experts noted.

According to the shipping site Marine Traffic, the Sola TS when carrying its full load of crude oil displaces about 113,000 tons more than a U.S. aircraft carrier, and even when empty displaces 10 times as much as Helge Ingstad.

Warships typically are constructed of thinner metal than commercial workhorses because they need more speed and maneuverability in combat.

“Naval ships are no longer the biggest ships on the seas,” said Bruns, the University of Kiel professor. “In many cases, it's a bit like a mouse-vs-elephant comparison.”

What appears to have worked well in the aftermath of the collision is rushing all sailors to safety, said Bruns. That could well have something to do with a years-old trend among some European navies of adapting ship designs and crew procedures to so-called low-intensity operations, which includes fighting pirates and smugglers, and rescuing migrants in distress at sea.

A German shipbuilding executive noted a size difference between U.S. Navy ships, which tend to be bigger, and European models used for similar missions. In addition, “the Americans generally still build with more massive steel,” the executive added.

Salvage

Crews are in the process of securing the Ingstad with cables to the shore, and once they are sure the ship wont drift away and sink, the Navy will be able to get their people on board, according to the Norwegian paper Aftenposten.

Radio transmissions from Ingstad indicated that the Sola TS ripped a huge hole in the engine room, VG reported. Once crews are on board, the Navy will assess the level of damage to the ship, the Navy told Aftenposten.

The plan as it stands will be to see if the hole can be sealed up and the spaces dewatered, then the ship will be lifted on to a barge and brought to the Norwegian Navy base at Haakonsvern. The ship is carrying weapons that will be offloaded once it is safely on a barge, the Navy told Aftenposten.

Meanwhile, the Sola TS was cleared to leave Norway after being questioned by police and investigators and was in Britain on Saturday, Aftenposten reported.


Izvor: www.defencenews.com
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tihi
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« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2018, 09:01:08 am »

Po gornjem tekstu, sva krivica je na ratnom brodu. Tanker ih je video, slao upozorenja, slao upozorenja kontroli na zemlji, ali je posada ratnog broda ta koja je napravila svinjariju jer nije htelo da se skloni.
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2018, 09:14:03 am »

Pa bili su u stelt modu, pogasili su svu aparaturu, zatvorili oči i mislili da ih niko ne vidi.


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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2018, 01:15:41 pm »

Norvežani planiraju podizanje fregate, njen utovar na baržu i prevoz do baze Hakonsvern do prve nedelje decembra.

Quote

Raising HNoMS Helge Ingstad to take three weeks
Posted on November 14, 2018

An operation to raise the almost-submerged Royal Norwegian Navy frigate HNoMS Helge Ingstad following a collision in the Hjeltefjorden fjord on November 8 is expected to be completed within some three weeks, the navy has said.

Should all go according to plans, the stricken frigate will be loaded on a 140-meter commercial barge and transported to the Haakonsvern base by the first week of December. Plans for salvaging the frigate got underway immediately after the collision while sea bottom mapping with autonomous vessels around and below the frigate is already underway. According to Norwegian media reports, dredging works that would allow the barge to approach the frigate are also underway.

In an update on November 14, the navy said Helge Ingstad was in danger of sinking even further as steel wiring with which she had been secured to land snapped in the night between Monday and Tuesday. Following the collision on Thursday, the frigate was intentionally grounded and seven fixing points were subsequently welded onto the frigate’s hull and fixed to anchors on land in order to prevent her from sinking in deep water. However, as the frigate continued taking on water, the added weight snapped the steel wires and the ship sank further with only her mast and part of helicopter hangar still visible.

Norwegian company BOA Management and maritime consultancy DNV GL are now working with the navy to plan and execute an operation in which the frigate will be raised and transported to the Haakonsvern base for a first assessment of damages. The navy has not provided any info on whether the frigate will be repaired or scrapped as the majority of the ship’s systems have spent a considerable amount of time under water.


Izvor: www.navaltoday.com
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pvanja
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« Reply #95 on: November 18, 2018, 01:25:12 pm »

Fregata sve vise lici na podmornicu. Ako i uspeju da je izvuku pitanje je da li ce se isplatiti popravka.


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« Reply #96 on: November 18, 2018, 02:04:38 pm »



Ma ovaj je gotov! Gootov jee! Ljudski faktor - neograničena ljudska glupost napravila je ogromnu štetu. Sve što vredi na brodu je naplavljeno, pregorelo, kurcšlusovano! Kao kad bacite smartphone u kadu punu vode i pustite ga da prenoći - nema tu pomoći!
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Boro Prodanic
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« Reply #97 on: November 18, 2018, 02:53:06 pm »

Ma ovaj je gotov! Gootov jee! Ljudski faktor - neograničena ljudska glupost napravila je ogromnu štetu. Sve što vredi na brodu je naplavljeno, pregorelo, kurcšlusovano! Kao kad bacite smartphone u kadu punu vode i pustite ga da prenoći - nema tu pomoći!

Ne slažem se, uz dosta para sve to može da se reši. Pre 5 godina u Kostolcu oluja poplavi Casagrande hidrauličnu bušilicu od milion Evra, virilo samo rotaciono svetlo. Jesmo se mučili mesec i više ali sve OK, i danas radi.
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Solaris
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« Reply #98 on: November 18, 2018, 05:58:41 pm »

Ma ovaj je gotov! Gootov jee! Ljudski faktor - neograničena ljudska glupost napravila je ogromnu štetu. Sve što vredi na brodu je naplavljeno, pregorelo, kurcšlusovano! Kao kad bacite smartphone u kadu punu vode i pustite ga da prenoći - nema tu pomoći!

Ne slažem se, uz dosta para sve to može da se reši. Pre 5 godina u Kostolcu oluja poplavi Casagrande hidrauličnu bušilicu od milion Evra, virilo samo rotaciono svetlo. Jesmo se mučili mesec i više ali sve OK, i danas radi.

Slana voda je to Boro.  Wink Ali znaš ti to. Nije kao Jadran ali slano.
Osim toga, najskuplji dio ovog broda je elektronika a to je prnulo, šta kaže Kumbor.

poz.
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Boro Prodanic
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« Reply #99 on: November 18, 2018, 06:30:39 pm »

Znam da je to slana voda. Godine 1991. greškom komandira jedna BRM razbila krmeno zrcalo i sela na dno u lučici Fizela u Puli. Trajalo je 5-6 sati dok smo je digli na površinu, jedino što nismo uspeli da sredimo bile se automatske puške posade, cevi su iznutra korodiralo i nismo mogli da ih očistimo čak ni ispaljivanjem po 100 - 200 metaka po cevi brzom paljbom. Brodske uređaje smo sve brzo rešili, osim akumulatora, oni su bili u kratkom spoju.

Znam da je elektronika osetljiva na to, zato sam i napisao "uz dosta para", ali može se.
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galeb
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« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2018, 01:41:11 pm »

Smartphone: pao je u more. Istina, za kratko vreme. Prestao raditi. Stavljen preko noci ili za 2 dana - ne znam, prijatelji uradili - u rizu i radio posle normalno. Riza izvlaci vodu. 
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Trifko
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Од свих ратника најјача су два: време и стрпљење.


« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2018, 07:51:44 pm »

Po gornjem tekstu, sva krivica je na ratnom brodu. Tanker ih je video, slao upozorenja, slao upozorenja kontroli na zemlji, ali je posada ratnog broda ta koja je napravila svinjariju jer nije htelo da se skloni.

Meni to nešto podsjeća na ovo

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Trifko
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Од свих ратника најјача су два: време и стрпљење.


« Reply #102 on: November 19, 2018, 07:57:16 pm »

Smartphone: pao je u more. Istina, za kratko vreme. Prestao raditi. Stavljen preko noci ili za 2 dana - ne znam, prijatelji uradili - u rizu i radio posle normalno. Riza izvlaci vodu. 


DJi Phantom 4 Pro ponosni vlasnik ga htjeo prizemljiti na jahtu pa ga prizemlji kraj jahte u more, poslije potonuća izvađen opran u običnoj vodi, boravio par dana u riži Smiley , promjenjena baterija i par komponenti i dalje leti.
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Boro Prodanic
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« Reply #103 on: November 19, 2018, 08:03:48 pm »

Elektronika mora da ima napajanje, a ono obično prvo ide u kratki spoj. Ako ostane bez napajanja, kad se osuši uglavnom je sve OK.
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kumbor
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« Reply #104 on: November 19, 2018, 08:14:16 pm »



Iako sam prvi stavio poređenje sa smartphonom, razlike su ogromne. Ne verujem da SPY Aegis radar, SUV, generator, i gomila opreme mogu ikad ponovo raditi ako su više dana bili pod morem!
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