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Author Topic: HRZ i PZO: Izbor novog višenamjenskog borbenog zrakoplova  (Read 465830 times)
 
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pvanja
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« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2010, 09:10:10 am »

Amerikanci se trude da standardizuju avione u EU (posebno u ovim istocnim i balkanskim saveznickim zemljama) Smiley

Tako kad kreneu negde u akciju da im je unificirana logistika Smiley

Mislim da ce i Srbija da dobije slicnu ponudu.
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80sBoy
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« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2010, 09:27:26 am »

Slovenci placaju italijanima 60 miliona evra/god na zastitu vazdusnog prostora.Za HR ta cifra bi sigurno bila vece zbog konfiguracije i velicine teritorije,u slucaju da ostanete bez lovacke avijacije.
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pvanja
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« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2010, 11:14:37 am »

@80sBoy
Da li je istina da Balticke zemlje ne placaju svoju zastitu vec da im ostale zemlje clanice to rade na svoj racun ?

Nisam nasao nista o ovo.
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Patriot
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« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2010, 11:34:16 am »

@80sBoy
Da li je istina da Balticke zemlje ne placaju svoju zastitu vec da im ostale zemlje clanice to rade na svoj racun ?
Možda, ako se radi o Rusiji. Samo s njima - tradicionalno - kad te dođu "čuvati", više ne prestaju (čuvati) ...
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80sBoy
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« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2010, 11:39:04 am »

Blizina Rusije sasvim sigurno daje na vaznosti tom delu vazdusnog prostora za NATO.Kakvi su aranzmani u pitanju nije mi poznato.
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jadran2
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« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2010, 11:56:54 am »

Pitanje i odgovor (EST, LT, LV); cijena NATO-vskih ociju na nebu i nije uopce tako skupa (svaki nas iole solidniji tajkun bi to platio ne trepnuvsi):

Sunday, March 28, 2010
ZOKNIAI AIR BASE, Lithuania: Colonel Sebastien Vallette swings back in his desk chair, minutes after landing his Mirage fighter on a Soviet-era runway.

A detailed map on his wall shows Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, flanked by bold warnings: “Do Not Enter Russian Airspace”.

For six years, Nato allies have taken turns patrolling the airspace of the three Baltic states, minnows which won freedom from the crumbling Soviet Union in 1991 and have testy ties with Moscow.

Vallette and six other French flyers under his command are the current eyes in the sky.

“The point about airspace sovereignty is to know who’s doing what in it,” Vallette told AFP at Zokniai, a huge, mostly-mothballed facility in northern Lithuania where 20,000 Red Army troops were once based.

“It’s a combination of deterrence, protection, prevention and assistance,” he added.

Vallette acknowledged Baltic history is “complicated”, but rejected suggestions his job is about warning the resurgent Kremlin, which only withdrew its forces in 1994.

“Everyone wants to put Russia in focus, but there isn’t a special focus,” he insisted. “All countries conduct surveillance in their national airspace. There isn’t a concept of a particular threat.”

The Baltic trio joined Nato on March 29, 2004. The air patrols began immediately.

Most members of the 28-nation, trans-Atlantic alliance cover their own skies. But Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia are small and cash-strapped.

“It’s not a good idea to have a void airspace above Nato territory. It’s a matter of principle. Wherever it is. Voids are always a temptation,” said Estonian Defence Minister Jaak Aaviksoo.

The trio’s total population is 6.8 million, and their professional military, 20,500. They have 580 troops in Afghanistan, winning praise from Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen for “punching above their weight”.

Their air forces total 1,550 personnel and 35 aircrafts, mostly helicopters and transporters.

“There’s also a symbolic value in addition to the purely technical control of air borders,” said Aaviksoo. “This is an indication of solidarity”.

His Lithuanian counterpart Rasa Jukneviciene underscored that: “It’s about ‘Nato visibility’”.

The Baltic states together pay 100,000 euros a month, or 10 per cent of operation costs. The patrolling state meets the rest.

The patrol mandate runs until 2014 but the trio are trying to get it extended. “The indications about 2018 are pretty positive,” said Latvian Defence Minister Imants Liegis. Nato member Norway is helping draft a post-2018 plan, which could involve creating a small joint Baltic air force.

“The air mission is the only allied footprint on the territory of the Baltic states,” noted Lithuanian defence analyst Aleksandras Matonis. “It has no military meaning. But it has political substance”.

The French served a first four-month stint in 2007 and are due back in 2011. Belgium, Britain, the Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Turkey and the United States have also taken part.

Vallette’s 140-strong contingent — it includes ground crew — took over from the Germans on January 4 and gives way to the Poles on May 1.

Two fighters make joint routine sorties twice a day, lasting an hour and a half and mostly involving simple observation.

But the fighters can scramble any time to make visual contact with planes whose communications have gone offline, and may escort them out.

Russian aircraft bound for Moscow’s Kaliningrad territory, west of Lithuania, have strayed into the Baltic states’ skies without permission. The line between navigational error and “buzzing” can be fine. “There’s a kind of mutual understanding that means there isn’t an escalation,” said Vallette.

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Slovenskih EUR 60 milijuna, tu se ne uklapaju???

(clanak je bio objavljen u vise glasila)
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NATO_allies_are_Baltic_states_eyes_in_the_sky_999.html

« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 12:01:57 pm by jadran2 » Logged
pvanja
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« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2010, 12:32:53 pm »

Bio je ovde na Palubi (u temi Naslednik Migova u V i PVO-rasprava) link ka fajlu emisije o nabavci novog visnamenskog aviona koju je radio A. Radic pa se tu spominje kako pribalticke zemlje ne placaju zastitu svog VaP-a vec to pada na teret zemlja NATO-a koje to radte i rotiraju se na 5 meseci i u proseku ih to kosta 5 miliona Eura.

Evo ponovo tog linka (na 5:22 je ovaj deo oko cuvanja VaP iznad pribaltickih zemalja)
http://www.eai.org.rs/admin/download/files/_id_50/Lovac za odbranu Neba Srbije-srpski.flv
treba biti samo uporan jer sajt ne radi stalno.
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jadran2
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« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2010, 12:38:24 pm »

Po gornjoj informaciji, kosta ih EUR 100.000/mjesecno sto je 10% stvarne cijene kostanja; ostatak na NATO.
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Coral Sea
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« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2010, 12:42:33 pm »

Po gornjoj informaciji, kosta ih EUR 100.000/mjesecno sto je 10% stvarne cijene kostanja; ostatak na NATO.

Tako je... A slican deal ce vjerovatno biti uspostavljen i sa nekim zemljama sa ovog podrucja, prvenstveno mislim na Sloveniju, RH, Albaniju, pa tu su jos i CG, Makedonija i BiH u dogledno vrijeme...
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pvanja
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« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2010, 12:54:47 pm »

@jadran2

Nije bas 100.000 eur/mesec vec pre ce biti 1.000.000 eur/mesec stim da avioni tada baziraju u Litvaniji.

Znaci 5 meseci 5 mil eura.

Pretpostavljam da salju 2 do 4 aviona koji u principu vise sede na zemlji nego sto lete jer su u pripravnosti.
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jadran2
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« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2010, 01:07:01 pm »

Samo citiram : ...."The Baltic states together pay 100,000 euros a month, or 10 per cent of operation costs. The patrolling state meets the rest."

Mozda je i 5 milijuna godisnje, meni osobno je svejedno.
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pvanja
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« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2010, 01:27:36 pm »

Nisam proicitao clanak mislio sam da si se samo preracunao na onu cenu koju sam ja dao.

Da vidim iz clanka da balticke zemlje placaju 10 % cene ali samo do 2014. Moguce je produzenje do 2018. Sad se pominje stvaranje zajednickog vazduhoplovstva baltickih zemlja koje bi obezbedjivalo njihov VaP posle 2018.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 01:36:43 pm by pvanja » Logged
80sBoy
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« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2010, 10:24:28 am »

@jadran2

Quote
Slovenskih EUR 60 milijuna, tu se ne uklapaju???


Slovenia pays about 60 million Euros a year to the Italian Air Force for defending Slovenian airspace.

http://www.search.com/reference/SFR_Yugoslav_Air_Force

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janezek67
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« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2010, 11:32:17 am »

Za sada sigurno Slovenija ne plača Italiji ništa (ili barem ne 60 milijuna). Pa i Italijani i nemaju ni posebnih troškova i ništa i ne rade. Nadzor i onako vrše Slovenci radarom, ponekad imaju vežbe, a to jim samo dođe kako upoznavanje neprijatelja i mogučnost pravljenja buke i zagađenja i nekdje drugdje. Inače Italijani interveniraju samo, kada je u pitanju vanjska vojnička opasnost - za presretanje civilnih avijona nisu nadležni. To prave slovenci pilatusima PC9, ako mogu da dostignu ovakav avijon. Pošto je sada još Hrvatska u Nato paktu, vanjski neprijatelj nema ni da dođe, osim iz neke druge Nato članice (ili Austrije, što je skoro isto).

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brodarski
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« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2010, 03:03:14 pm »

A sjeverni  susjed dođe kao prijatelj?
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