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Author Topic: Pearl Harbor 07.12.1941. 0800 sati  (Read 23528 times)
 
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relja
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« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2018, 12:52:45 pm »

Ta "mirnodopska atmosfera" je deo šire slike, ne može se uzimati kao izdvojeni detalj i koristiti kao argument za veleizdaju.
Motorista je na prvim stranama ove teme preneo vrlo dobar tekst koji opisuje okolnosti pre napada.
Ono što ta "mirnodopska atmosfera" ipak dokazuje je da je japanska obmana u potpunosti uspela a da je američki vrh potpuno zatajio.
Ne vidim problem u tome da se kaže da su na ključnim pozicijama bili ljudi nedorasli prilikama u kojima su se našli. To je redovna pojava.
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Boro Prodanic
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« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2018, 12:58:23 pm »

Nisam ni mislio da je nepripremljenost i mirnodopska atmosfera "veleizdaja", niti sam to rekao. Mislio sam time da su šanse da nešto krene naopako za Japance bile veoma male, ništa drugo.

O kompetentnosti ljudi na visokim položajima ne vredi trošiti reči. Kompetenno rukovodstvo Japanci ne bi iznenadili, posebno ne nakon pregovora koje sam već pominjao i na kojima su Japanci jaso pokazali šta žele.

Mali citat posta uvaženog kolege @Ljube sa prve stranice ove teme:"Japan je , izvodeći fact complii , prinudio SAD (u kojima je do tada postojao određeni, značajni otpor ulasku u rat) da prihvate ratna dejstva i uđu u Drugi svetski rat."
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relja
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« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2018, 02:24:00 pm »

Mali citat posta uvaženog kolege @Ljube sa prve stranice ove teme:"Japan je , izvodeći fact complii , prinudio SAD (u kojima je do tada postojao određeni, značajni otpor ulasku u rat) da prihvate ratna dejstva i uđu u Drugi svetski rat."

E, upravo tako. I time sve te teorije zavere koje neki ljudi pokušavaju da proture gube na svakom smislu.

Našao sam i tekst o tom oficiru koji je tri puta odbacio prijavu sa radara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Tyler

On December 7, 1941, Tyler was a first lieutenant in the Army Air Corps serving as the Executive Officer of the 78th Pursuit Squadron, based at Pearl Harbor. That morning he was assigned duty as the Officer In Charge of the partly activated Pearl Harbor Intercept Center. His duties were to assist the controller in ordering planes to intercept foreign planes, after the planes got in the air. New and untrained at the time, when warned of the approach of a large aircraft flight from the north, Tyler presumed it to be the scheduled arrival of six B-17 bombers from the mainland. The radar operators were tracking Japanese planes coming to attack the base. However the operator, operating in training mode, failed to make clear the size of the formation even though it was larger than anything they'd ever seen, and he did not pass on an alarm of "attack imminent".

Following an investigation by a Naval Board of Inquiry in August 1942,[3] it was determined that Tyler had been assigned to the Information Center with little or no training, no supervision, and no staff with which to work. Tyler was subsequently cleared on any wrongdoing by the Board and no disciplinary actions were taken against him.


Znači mladi pilot, ne radarac, u rotaciji sa drugim pilotima, na nekoj informativnoj dužnosti/obuci pri testiranju radarskog sistema... divota.
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lovac
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« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2018, 06:03:38 pm »

Mislim da stvari posmatrate jednostrano:
Japan nije jurnuo u rat protiv USA, iz čistog svog ćefa, već je bio primoran na to, zbog američke politike prema Japanu. Oni su pre rata mnogo puta ispoljili i izneli javno svoje (imperijalistiške) težnje, u smislu da i oni dobiju malo nečega na dalekom istoku za sebe i svoje potrebe, u tadašnjoj novoj preraspodeli teritorija i dobara na svetu. Njima su falile rudne sirovine i nafta. Toga u Japanu nema - zato su morali to potražiti i oteti u svom okruženju.

USA se očito i tada ponašala tako nadmeno kao sada - i svojim političkim potezima (strateškim interesima), ne želeći saslušati, uvažiti i shvatiti japanske težnje, prosto primorao Japan da učini samoubistvo, napavši USA.

Prosta je stvar u životu: za svađu je uvek potrebno najmanje dvoje.

No, ovo o čemu mi sada razglabamo, jeste veoma uprošćeni prikaz tadašnjih događanja.

Ako imamo na umu tadašnje Japanske težnje za ekspanzijom, bezizlazan položaj Velike Britanije, i Čerčilove aktivnosti da se USA uvuče u rat po svaku cenu, Ruzveltovo balansiranje između pomoći BG i ne ulaska u rat, Njegovu jasnu viziju da se rat u Evropi ne može dobiti bez da se u to umeša USA, i još mnogo začina u tadašnjoj čorbi..... mirne duše možemo zaključiti da napad na Pearl Harbour nije jednostrani japanski luđački potez, već odluka izazvana spletom nesrečnih okolnosti, političkog nerazumevanja i sa mnogo zakulisnih radnji, koje verovatno nikada nećemo saznati.
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Boro Prodanic
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« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2018, 06:14:40 pm »

@Lovac, tačno je sve što pišeš, ali nismo o tome @Relja i ja diskutovali, već samo o finalnoj fazi te predratne igre - napadu na Havaje, u smislu da li je moglo poći gore ili možda i bolje za Japance da su se neke stvari poklopile ili da su uradili što nisu...
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2018, 06:55:57 pm »

Amerikanci su imali sreće da se njihovi NA nisu nalazili u Perl Harburu to jutro i da Japanci nisu uspeli da ih lociraju na moru. Japanci su u potpunosti iskoristili iskustva Britanskog prepada na Taranto, ali su pogrešili što nisu uputili i treći talas. Sve u svemu i jedni i drugi su imali propusta i sreće.
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Dreadnought
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« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2019, 03:22:32 pm »



Quote
(19 Feb 1942) First film of the havoc inflicted on that fateful Sunday DECEMBER 7TH 1941



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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2019, 09:11:16 pm »

Perl Harbur na proleće 1942. godine.

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lovac
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« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2019, 07:43:34 pm »

Delje idilično, kao da se ništa nije desilo.
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relja
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« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2019, 09:07:02 pm »

Perl Harbur na proleće 1942. godine.




Hvala za snimak.
Svašta se tu vidi. Neki potpoljeni brodovi su podignuti na površinu. Vojnici i oficiri se šetaju kroz grad sa šlemovima i zaštitnim maskama.
Dugačka kolona GMC kamiona kakve ni jedna druga vojska tada nije imala.
Avioni na sletanju: Lokid Hadson, B-24, B-18 i B-17 imaju još uvek prvobitne oznake sa crvenim poljem na beloj zvezdi.
Repne površine su u crveno-belom prugama zastave. Ove pruge su već bile skinute sa aviona prve linije USAAF-a još ranije,
ali u zonama u kojima je Mornarica imala prednost komande (kao Havaji) su vraćene početkom 1942 zbog jednoobraznosti označavanja letelica USAAF i USN.
Zanimljiva je i kamuflaža na B-24, B-18 (dvobojna, kao da su mašine bile prvobitno namenjene RAF-u) i B-17 (trobojna?).
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2019, 08:09:23 am »

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Dreadnought
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« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2020, 02:19:04 pm »



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Computer enhancement of this infamous photo, taken from a Nakajima B5N2 torpedo bomber early on in Japan’s WW2 attack on Pearl Harbor on the morning of December 7, 1941, shows a wide view of the harbor mid-attack… with something curious. There appears to be noticeable aberrations in the surface of the water, with no corresponding splash to indicate an air-dropped weapon.

The attack on the Pearl Harbor naval base in Hawaii is typically remembered as a surprise aerial invasion by over 350 Japanese aircraft. What is often left out of that narrative is that along with the hundreds of fighter jets and bombers, the Japanese also launched five miniature submarines as another wing of their attack, with the intent of invading the harbor from below.
 
These miniature, or midget, subs, were developed in secret by the Japanese Navy under the code name Type A Kō-hyōteki, or “Target A”. Each of the 46-ton water crafts could fit two pilots, and were armed with two 450-millimeters Type 97 torpedoes containing 800 pound warheads. The subs were designed to travel at a max speed of 26 miles per hour, at a depth no greater than 100 meters.
 
Their story is typically sidelined for good reason - the historical records show that of the five midget submarines launched from larger Japanese motherships just hours before the aerial attack began, none of them managed to infiltrate the harbor and inflict any additional damage to the American naval fleet.
 
At least, that’s how the story went until the late 1990’s, when close analysis of the aforementioned photo revealed a surprising twist to that narrative - that one of the five Japanese submarines may have successfully breached the harbor and launched an underwater attack, after all.





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« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2020, 02:20:05 pm »



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When history reflects on Pearl Harbor, the attack is often remembered as a strictly aerial battle. But there was another, much smaller group of Japanese soldiers who were extensively trained for a little-known second phase of attacks to correspond with the air raids. This mission was comprised of ten men making up a secret and elite midget submarine force. Called the “Special Attack Naval Unit,” they would ultimately be unsuccessful, and yet even their failure wouldn’t go as planned.  Tasked with destroying his own submarine, one of those men would instead accidentally pass-out and become the first Japanese POW of World War II.

It was late into the night of December 6, 1941. America did not know it yet, but it would awake the next morning to find itself under siege. On the morning of December 7, the Pearl Harbor Naval Base on the Hawaiian island of Oahu would be bombarded with a series of surprise attacks from Japanese aircraft. It would be the final straw that drew the U.S. out of its isolationism and into the global scuffle of World War II.





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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2020, 08:22:43 am »

Spasavanje brodova i čišćenje luke posle napada:

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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2020, 08:06:27 pm »

Drugi deo:

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