PALUBA
April 27, 2024, 02:14:54 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Važno - Prilikom registracije lozinka mora da sadrži najmanje osam karaktera, od toga jedno veliko slovo, i bar jednu cifru, u protivnom registracija neće biti uspešna
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Del.icio.us Digg FURL FaceBook Stumble Upon Reddit SlashDot

Pages:  1 ... 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 [38] 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ... 54   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: F-35 Lightning II  (Read 307369 times)
 
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Рашо
Stručni saradnik - RV i PVO
kapetan korvete
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6 883



« Reply #555 on: September 05, 2018, 02:56:44 pm »

Још један озбиљан инцидент...

Како јавља сајт www.usni.org, 22. августа је дошло до озбиљног инцидента у коме су оштећени авиони Ф-35Ц и Ф/А-18Ф.

Наиме, тога дана је, током вјежбе пуњења горива у ваздуху, дошло до тешког оштећења авиона Ф-35Ц док је примао гориво од авиона Ф/А-18Ф. Истрага тек треба да утврди како је дошло до оштећења корпе за попуну горива и како су њени дјелови доспјели у мотор авиона Ф-35Ц.

Иако су оба апарата успјела да слете, инцидент је оцјењен као крајње озбиљан:

Quote
Damage to the F-35C was reported as a Class A mishap – the most serious type for a military aircraft. An incident is classified as Class A when an aircraft suffers more than $2 million in damage, is totally destroyed or involves a serious or fatal injury to the aircrew. The damage to the F-35 was above the $2 million threshold, Hecht said. A new F135 engine for the JSF costs about $14 million, according to the most recent contract award to engine builder Pratt & Whitney.

The Super Hornet was also damaged but was reported as a Class C mishap because there were no injuries and the total estimated cost of damage to the aircraft is between $50,000 and $500,000, Hecht said.


Извор: https://news.usni.org/2018/09/04/f-35c-damaged-36249
Logged
tihi
potporučnik
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2 350



« Reply #556 on: September 05, 2018, 03:41:59 pm »

Stelt ima prednost samo protiv onih koji nemaju sredstava da otkriju stelt avion...Realno to je velika vecina drzava. Medjutim, ja verujem da Rusija, moguce i kina vec imaju sisteme za otkrivanje stelt aviona, gde ta prednost postaje najveca mana aviona (sa obzirom na kompromise). Isto kao sto tvrdim da je "Orao"najveci promasaj SFRJ avio industrije, i uludo bacene pare, tako mislim da je i F-35 projekat koji je vise puta udvostrucio planirane troskove, i jedino zato sto tako nesto jos uvek ne postoji njegovo postojanje ima smisla, a videcemo da ce se uskoro pojaviti konkurencija, koja ce kostati znatno manje.
Logged
kumbor
Stručni saradnik - opšti
kapetan bojnog broda
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17 492


« Reply #557 on: September 17, 2018, 05:41:51 pm »

The $1 trillion question: is the F-35 project too big to fail?
By Julian Turner
Share


The United States Air Force is reportedly considering cancelling orders for as many as 590 F-35 fighter jets because the aircraft is proving too expensive to operate and maintain. Nevertheless, with so much money already invested, production ploughs ahead. Julian Turner reports on the controversy and whether ongoing cost issues will affect purchase commitments.

In March, it was revealed that the United States Air Force (USAF) may cancel orders for as many as 590 Lockheed Martin F-35A jets – a third of its planned fleet of 1,763 – due to long-term cost issues. The news that one of the world’s best pound-for-pound fighter jets may be too expensive to operate and maintain in its current form comes at a critical juncture in its evolution. In April, F-35 flight test programme concluded System Development and Demonstration testing, a major milestone.

Since 2006, the Joint Strike Fighter programme’s Integrated Test Force have notched up more than 17,000 flight hours across 9,200 flights testing the aircraft’s various mission and weapons systems. In September, the jet fighter is set to begin up to a year of rigorous combat testing that, if successful, would trigger full-rate production as soon as late 2019. In its spending plans for the current fiscal year, Congress has already agreed to bankroll 90 jets, 20 more than were originally requested.

According to the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) “there is little doubt” the F-35 “brings unique capabilities to the American military, but without revising sustainment plans” the military “is at risk of being unable to leverage the capabilities of the aircraft it has recently purchased.”

“Right now, we can’t afford the sustainment costs we have on the F-35 – and we’re committed to changing that,” Undersecretary Ellen Lord, the Pentagon’s top weapons buyer, stated in January.
Operation and maintenance: the F-35’s $1 trillion problem

The US Department of Defense insists it now has a handle on costs – projected to be around $406bn – for developing and producing a fleet of 2,456 F-35s for the USAF, Navy and Marine Corps. However, it is in the sphere of operation and maintenance that the F-35 is in danger of becoming prohibitively expensive. The Pentagon’s independent cost unit estimates that the bill for keeping the F-35 Lightning II fleet in the air and maintained through 2070 may be to the tune of an eye-watering $1.1tn.
“The Pentagon estimates that the bill for keeping the USAF’s fleet of F-35s in the air and maintained through 2070 may be $1.1tn.”

Crucially, half of the operations and support expenditures – including programme management, depot maintenance, part repair, software maintenance and engineering – are thought to be tied to Lockheed Martin’s costs. The remaining bill, an estimated $3.8bn a year, is footed by the USAF. However, the internal Defense Department analysis paper obtained by Bloomberg notes that the Pentagon has only “limited visibility” into how Lockheed Martin spends that money as a contractor.

The air force says it is collaborating with the Pentagon’s F-35 programme office with a view to reducing the aircraft’s operation and support costs by 38% through 2028 from the $38bn calculated in 2012. For its part, Lockheed has responded by taking steps to improve F-35’s readiness and repair costs, including expanding the supply chain, purchasing spare parts ahead of demand to boost availability and achieve economies of scale, and investing in diagnostic and data analytics technologies.

“We are taking aggressive actions to improve F-35 aircraft availability and reduce sustainment costs,” Bridget Lauderdale, Lockheed’s vice-president of F-35 global sustainment, said.

“As the sustainment system matures and the size of the operational fleet grows, we are confident we will deliver more capability at less cost than legacy aircraft,” Lauderdale said in a statement.
Is the F-35 Joint Strike Programme under threat?

So, is the US military establishment finally running out of patience with the F-35 after a decade of testing and $60m of investment? The answer, at least in the short-to-mid term, appears to be ‘no’.

Responding to Bloomberg’s report, USAF spokeswoman Ann Stefanek said that no final decision had been made. The potential reduction in aircraft was a “staff assessment on aircraft affordability,” she said. “It’s premature for the Air Force to consider buying fewer aircraft at this time.”

“We’re going to be buying these aircraft for a number of years, so it’s way too early to be talking about any curtailment of any procurement or any buy,” confirmed Chief of Staff Gen. Dave Goldfein.

Another vote of confidence in the F-35 project came in late April with Lockheed winning a year-long, $1.4bn contract to sustain the global F-35 enterprise for the US military and international customers.

To date, more than 280 F-35s have been delivered and operate from 15 military bases worldwide.

The $1.4bn contract – around 73% of which will be paid by the US Marine Corps, Air Force and Navy, and the remainder by international customers – covers the following: air system maintenance, pilot and maintainer training, depot activation, sustaining engineering; Automatic Logistics Information System support, data analytics and predictive health management; and supply chain logistics.

In April, Vice-Admiral Mat Winter, director of the F-35 programme, said all three versions of the warplane will drop below the $100m mark once the plane goes into full rate production.
Smart investment: F-35 defects and long-term costs

Despite this, the issue of long-term operation and support cost remains unresolved, one of many controversies, including parts shortages, unavailable aircraft and technical issues, to dog the F-35. In April, the Pentagon revealed it had stopped accepting new jets over a disagreement about who pays for costly repairs to fix problems that went undetected during the manufacturing process. At the time of writing, the Pentagon had pledged to fix 966 ‘open deficiencies’ with the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter before it goes into full production in response to a recent report by the US GAO.

In its report, the GAO said, “In its rush to cross the finish line, the [F-35 Joint Programme Office] has made some decisions that are likely to affect aircraft performance and reliability and maintainability for years to come.”

The GAO defines Category 1 deficiencies as ‘those that could jeopardize safety, security, or another critical requirement,’, – an example being an issue with the pilot’s helmet-mounted display – and Category 2 deficiencies as ‘those that could impede or constrain successful mission accomplishment.’ The report cited 111 Category 1 and 855 Category 2 deficiencies.

Uncertainty around expenditure threatens to undermine the economic viability of the F-35, including the UK, which is buying 138 of the Marine Corps version for use on Royal Navy aircraft carriers. The UK MoD is reportedly happy with the overall performance of the aircraft – built to be stealthy and smart, the Joint Strike Fighter incorporates 8 million lines of code – but has questioned whether operating such an expensive and complicated platform represents value for money in the long term.

Stephen Lovegrove, the permanent secretary of the UK MoD, told reporters in March that he’d be discussing the “slightly unknown territory” of future costs in meetings with F-35 programme officials.

Lovegrove summed the problem up thus: “I am constantly being asked by parliamentarians in the UK what the total cost is going to be and they are sometimes, understandably, a bit frustrated when I have to tell them, ‘At the moment nobody is entirely sure’.”

Copy/paste  članka sa sajta Airforce technology.

Dakle. dok mi ovde drvimo da li je F-35 svemirsko čudo 5. generacije, cena programa se približava cifri od 1.000 milijardi US$. Suviše skup da bi propao - osnovni je zaključak. Ako  kažemo da je nešto suviše skupo, znači da nije dovoljno dobro da opravda cenu koštanja.  I za sada otkrivenih 966 raznih tehničkih i softverskih primedbi. I niko ne zna koliko će na kraju koštati. I broj otkazanih narudžbi se povećava!

Očigledno se Lokid Martin ugledao na Ruse - kad je reč o F-35, krade se na sve strane, trpa se u džepove i zavrat sipa!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 05:51:34 pm by kumbor » Logged
Morskoprase
zastavnik
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1 484



« Reply #558 on: September 17, 2018, 07:15:03 pm »

Da, budite sigurni, program je prevelik i nije da sme propasti. Sve je počelo sa odabirom, da bi se malo kasnije Boing povukao iz programa razvoja borbenih aviona sa posadom. Tako je ostao Lokid Martin jedini proizvođać takvog naoružanja u SAD i jedini, koji je "razvio" zapadni avion 5. generacija za prodaju saveznicima. Uz sve iluzije ali i napredne tehnologije, ispostavlja se, da stvar nije u nijednom pogledu top avion nego leteća platforma, koja nije sama sebi dostatna (kako za borbu tako i za preživljavanje). Zajedno sa ostalim sistemima predstavlja vrhunac tehnologije-sa "manjim" problemima, koji se kod samih Amerikanaca očituju u problemima sa softverom (i to mirnodobnoj eksploataciji-šta će biti na modernom ratištu). Ostali kupci tih problema verovatno i nemaju, pošto i nemaju sve potrebne opreme za iskorištavanje punog potenciala. Sad pitanje: Dali treba toliko da se plati za karakteristike, koje jedna vojska neće moći koristiti? Odgovor je, da se može raditi u NATO-u je delimićno tačan, pošto izgleda, da će samo Amerikanci imati mogućnosti za iskorištavanje punih kapaciteta tog aviona. I ne, svi će ga kupovati, pošto nema te države na zapadu, koja će poćeti razvijati svoj vlastiti avion 5. generacije a Amerikanci će im lomiti i ruke i vlade, kako bi nabavljali te avione. Ukratko, socializacija gubitaka i nabava kapaciteta za Ameriku.
Logged
Director
stariji vodnik I klase
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1 043



« Reply #559 on: September 17, 2018, 08:20:10 pm »

@kumbor

Ko je do sada otkazao porudžbinu F-35 ?
Logged
Dreadnought
Počasni global moderator
kapetan bojnog broda
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 69 456



« Reply #560 on: September 22, 2018, 02:55:10 pm »


Quote
F-35C firing an AIM-9X during a test flight from NAS Patuxent River, Maryland (June 8, 2017)


[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]


* F-35C.jpg (636.24 KB, 2138x1704 - viewed 53 times.)
Logged
Dreadnought
Počasni global moderator
kapetan bojnog broda
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 69 456



« Reply #561 on: September 28, 2018, 06:49:10 am »


SAD prvi put u borbenu misiju poslale F-35B

 
Američki lovac pete generacije vertikalnog uzletanja i sletanja F-35B "lajtning II" prvi put je izveo vazdušni napad.

Cilj su bile pozicije militanata u Avganistanu.





Borbeni let lovca je izveden sa palube desantnog broda američke Ratne mornarice "Eseks", koji nosi šest letelica F-35B "lajtning II". Ranije su lovci učestvovali u izviđačkoj misiji u Somaliji, a zatim su poslati iz Adenskog zaliva u severni deo Arabijskog mora. Avion je izveo napad na ciljeve talibana.

Televizija CNN navodi da bi misija u Avganistanu mogla da bude prvo vatreno krštenje F-35. Na ovaj način, morska pešadija je postala prvi rod američke vojske koji je upotrebio nove lovce za vazdušne napade.

izvor
Logged
kumbor
Stručni saradnik - opšti
kapetan bojnog broda
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17 492


« Reply #562 on: September 28, 2018, 08:37:58 am »



Ovakva oprezna borbena upotreba pomoći će i da se prevaziđu postojeći tehnički i softverski problemi. Ne znamo kakvi su bili efekti napada gde je po stepi-kamenitoj polupustinji avion jurio umotane talibane.
Logged
dzumba
Stručni saradnik - specijalne jedinice
kapetan bojnog broda
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 22 409


« Reply #563 on: September 28, 2018, 04:09:44 pm »

Чуди ме да до сада нису нигде пробали у реалним условима. Ипак, употреба у Авганистану више личи на полигонска гађања него реалну борбену употребу. По америчке авионе тамо не прети опасност ни из ваздуха ни са копна.
Logged
pvanja
kapetan korvete
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6 280



« Reply #564 on: September 29, 2018, 07:12:29 am »

Neda se amerikancima sa ovim F-35.
Taman svi mediji objave ovu vest (kao udarnu) o prvoj borbenoj upotrebi i istog dana im isti model (F-35B (STOVL) sa vertikalnim poletanjem i sletanjem) dozivi udes u americi.

https://www.paluba.info/smf/index.php/topic,30564.0/topicseen.html
Logged
Dreadnought
Počasni global moderator
kapetan bojnog broda
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 69 456



« Reply #565 on: September 29, 2018, 08:54:48 am »


Dan posle "premijere" – srušio se avion od 100 miliona


Američka vojska pretrpela je prvo rušenje izuzetno skupog borbenog aviona iz programa F-35, vrednog oko 100 miliona dolara.

To se dogodilo samo dan nakon što je objavljena vest da je verzija tog aviona koju su koristili marinci imala prvo borbeno dejstvo po talibanskim metama u Avganistanu.

"Bi-Bi-Si" prenosi saopštenje američkih marinaca da se avion F-35B srušio u saveznoj državi Južna Karolina, da je pilot uspeo da se katapultira i prođe bez povreda. U saopštenju je navedeno da je istraga o uzroku pada u toku.

Navodi se da je program aviona F-35 najveći i najskuplji program naoružanja ove vrste na svetu i da je projektovano da bi američka kompanija "Lokid Martin" mogla da proda više od 3.000 ovih letelica, a program bi trebalo da 30 do 40 godina.

"Bi-Bi-Si" podseća da je program kritikovan kako zbog cene i kašnjenja u isporuci, tako zbog i efikasnosti u borbi.

Rojters je objavio da je novi ugovor koji je Pentagon juče potpisao za nabavku rekordnog broja od 141 borbenog aviona F-35, pri čemu je pređašnja cena od oko 100 miliona smanjena na 89,2 miliona dolara po letelici.

"Lokid Martin" pravi ove avione u tri varijante, pri čemu oznaka A znači da ima konvencionalno poletanje, oznaka je za skraćeno poletanje i vertikalno sletanje, a C za katapultiranje sa nosača aviona.

"Si-En-En" je juče preneo navode američkih vojnih zvaničnika da je borbeni avion F-35B u četvrtak prvi put upotrebljen u Avganistanu protiv fiksne talibanske mete.

"Tokom misije, F-35B izveo je napad kao vid podrške operacijama američkih trupa na kopnu i bio je uspešan", potvrdile su mornaričke snage SAD.

"Si-En-En" je naveo da ovaj avion favorizuje američki predsednik Donald Tramp, koji je nekoliko puta hvalio F-35 zbog sposobnosti da bude "nevidljiv".

izvor
Logged
Director
stariji vodnik I klase
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1 043



« Reply #566 on: September 29, 2018, 08:55:12 am »

Inače juče je potpisan još jedan ugovor između Pentagona i Lockheed za nabavku novih 141 F-35. Lockheed je najavio da je cena aviona spuštena na 89,2 miliona $ i pretpostavlja se da će uspeti da održi obećanje i spuste cenu na 80 miliona 2020. godine kada proizvodnja bude u punom pogonu.

Edit : prestigao me za par sekundi  pravilo
Logged
Рашо
Stručni saradnik - RV i PVO
kapetan korvete
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6 883



« Reply #567 on: September 29, 2018, 08:12:17 pm »

Џаба ти и да га џабе дају, ако ће послије да те одеру на експлоатацији и одржавању. Ко не плати на мосту, платиће на ћуприји...
Logged
fazan
Moderator
poručnik korvete
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3 233


« Reply #568 on: September 29, 2018, 09:00:05 pm »

Џаба ти и да га џабе дају, ако ће послије да те одеру на експлоатацији и одржавању. Ко не плати на мосту, платиће на ћуприји...
Управо тако. Цена авиона се може спустити и на 50 милиона долара, ако се све остало наплати посебно. Ово је психолошки, јер се тај авион свима попео на главу са трошковима.

Са друге стране, није фер да се за високу цену оптужује само произвођач. Добили су задатак да направе универзални авион који ће заменити више различитих авиона и захтеви који су постављени су веома сложени а често и тешки за усклађивање.
Logged
Milan (longtrip)
kapetan fregate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7 424



« Reply #569 on: September 29, 2018, 09:35:23 pm »

A ko skida kajmak na toliku cenu jednog aviona koji treba da se plati iz budžeta SAD zaduživanjem građana u vekove buduće  Wink
Logged
Pages:  1 ... 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 [38] 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ... 54   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder

SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.032 seconds with 22 queries.