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"Istorija razvoja sovjetskih i ruskih radara, komandno-informacionih sistema i sistema automatizacije"
 
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Author Topic: Tenk M-84  (Read 2240248 times)
 
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StefanK
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« Reply #6330 on: December 30, 2021, 01:54:19 pm »

Oh shit. I wish you all the best and quick recovery! That goes before anything else.
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kukimiro
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« Reply #6331 on: December 30, 2021, 03:18:11 pm »

And now I have a few more questions.  angel  Because the accessible documents are not entirely clear to me here. To the operating modes:

 a) The operating modus 'mechanical mode'.
The manual writes that the gunner can move the mirror vertically and horizontally directly with his control panel (komandni blok nizandzije). But he has to move gun and turret only with the hand cranks. That's unusual. OK. The gunner roughly aims at the target with the hand cranks. And then moves the central aiming mark onto the target. Then he measures the distance. The computer calculates the solution for the shot and adjusts the mirror according to the calculated solution. The gunner points the central aiming mark at the target again and can now fire.

Nije u potpunosti točno. Ogledalo mora biti otkočeno jedino zbog zauzimanja daljine odnosno pomjeranja končanice nakon mjerenja daljine do cilja,  sa komandnim blokom nišanđije ne radiš ništa već končanicu dovodiš na cilj sa ručnim mehanizmom elevacije i azimuta. Nakon dovođenja končanice na cilj vršiš laseriranje i ponovno dovodiš končanicu na cilj nakon čega vršiš opaljenje. Sve ti je napisano u Sustav upravljanje vatrom M-84, točka 160.
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kukimiro
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« Reply #6332 on: December 30, 2021, 03:30:10 pm »

b) The operating modus 'half stab mode'.
What does 'half stab' mean? Can move the gunner gun and turret with his control panel (komandni blok nizandzije)? So electro-hydraulic in vertical and horizontal?
If that were the case, the gunner could aiming the target, measure the distance and the computer would calculate the solution for the shot. Are the gun and turret automatically brought into position according to the calculated solution for the shot? Or does the gunner have to point the central aiming mark at the target again when the LED 'REAYDY TO FIRE' lights up?

Or can only the turret be turned electro-hydraulically in half stab mode? It was well known with the 2E28 stabilizer. For this only PRIVOD had to be switched on. The gun's automatic loader then only works in 'half' mode.

Or, the gunner moves the mirror - and gun and turret are electro-hydraulically tracked and synchronized with the mirror. Without signals from the gyro block.

I can't get that (a and b) clarified without the manuals for the fire control system.


Režim rada polustabilizacije se koristi kada se gađa iz mjesta pokretni cilj. Sa ručnim mehanizmom za elevaciju i azimut ne možeš točno pratiti pokretni cilj. Signali za stabilizaciju dolaze iz senzora elevacije i davača brzine po pravcu (azimutu). Rad ciljača opisan ti je u točci 162. pravila Sustav za upravljanje vatrom M-84.
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StefanK
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« Reply #6333 on: December 30, 2021, 05:39:08 pm »

kukimiro, thank you very much for your help.

Quote
Rad ciljača opisan ti je u točci 162. pravila Sustav za upravljanje vatrom M-84.
Unfortunately, this manual is not available to me.
___
Quote
... sa komandnim blokom nišanđije ne radiš ništa već končanicu dovodiš na cilj sa ručnim mehanizmom elevacije i azimuta.
That's what I stumbled upon in the other manual. The output from the "Kommandni Blok Nišanđije" is an electrical signal.

Is that what you mean?
- I bring the reticle roughly to the target with the mechanical hand cranks
- with the "Kommandni Blok Nišanđije" the target is aimed now very precisely, the laser is triggered and a moving target can be accompanied to determine the lead
- now the reticle moves and must be aimed again with the mechanical hand cranks
- ready to fire

__
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Režim rada polustabilizacije...
Can the turret and also the gun (!) of the M-84 be moved electro-hydraulically? And in contrast to the FULL STAB, you cannot shot in moving (non stabilized). But the mirror/reticle is corrected automatically by the computer. That would mean that the electrical output of the 'Kommandni Blok Nišanđije' goes directly to the control of the hydraulics from vertical and horizontal.

I suspect I have not correctly assessed the basic principle of the gyro block. The design engineers have unmistakably used a completely different principle here than their Soviet colleagues. If my inquiries can be confirmed in this way, then I think I have it now.
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kukimiro
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« Reply #6334 on: December 30, 2021, 07:59:28 pm »

Probaću na engleskom objasniti što radi ciljač.

What the gunner does while shooting in 'mechanical mode'

Prepare fire control system
Unlock mirror (elevation and azimuth) (DNNS-2)
Turn the switch on the KBN to the ELEKTRONIKA position
Turn off the „PRETJECANJE“ switch (KBN)
Load weapons
Using the hand cranks  point central aiming mark onto the target
Measure the distance with a laser
Bring the central aiming mark to the target again with hand cranks 
FIRE

What the gunner does while shooting in 'half stab mode'
Prepare fire control system
Unlock mirror (elevation and azimuth)  (DNNS-2)
Turn the switch on the KBN to the SISTEM position (horizontal guidance)
Turn on the hydraulic pump (vertical guidance)
Turn on the „PRETJECANJE“ switch (KBN)
Load weapons
Using the „KBN“  point central aiming mark onto the target
Measure the distance with a laser
Follow the target for at least one second
FIRE

Signals from the computer, gunners handle and gyro block are processed in the amplifier box and then go to the executive elements (electro hydraulic elements) and to the mirror (you showed it right on your block diagram)
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StefanK
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« Reply #6335 on: December 30, 2021, 08:14:47 pm »

Perfect! Again, Kukimiro, a big thank you. Then the DNNS-2 is about as powerful as the EMES from the Leopard2. I am really impressed!
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PakleniVuk
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Ko laje zlo ne misli


« Reply #6336 on: December 30, 2021, 09:08:39 pm »

Yap and "vi ken go frrrdrrr nau" Wink
M-84AS2 Today
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vildanrosic@icloud.com
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« Reply #6337 on: January 04, 2022, 10:45:19 am »

Ako neko ima slike M84 bosanske vojske nek' pošalje zelio bi ih vidjeti malo bolje!
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kosmonaut
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« Reply #6338 on: January 04, 2022, 03:52:04 pm »

Was ist "bosanska vojska"?
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Vladimir Ivanović
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Da sam nomalan, poludio bih.


« Reply #6339 on: January 06, 2022, 02:13:15 pm »

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

40th armored brigade - Adnan Forces,



* M84A in Iraq..jpg (56.55 KB, 750x571 - viewed 26 times.)
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Dus510
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« Reply #6340 on: January 09, 2022, 04:58:36 pm »

Jeli DNNS-2 bio naziv za cijeli SUP ili samo za nišansku napravu za M-84? Npr kako je za Snajper SUP nosio ime Omega-84 ali je nišanska naprava imala oznaku SCS-84? Ako netko zna isto me zanima kako je to išlo na T-72 tenkovima u varijanti M i M1
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kukimiro
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« Reply #6341 on: January 09, 2022, 07:28:17 pm »

DNNS-2 je sprava a sustav je SUV-M-84. Mislim da je Omega 84 netko lupio i otada ostalo, pravi naziv je EFCS3-84L a oznaka sprave je SGS-84L. Ova dva sustava se znatno razlikuju. Kako je išlo na T-72? Što konkretno?
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Bandzi
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« Reply #6342 on: January 09, 2022, 08:05:20 pm »

Verovatno misli na isto što i za M-84


T-72M/M1

Sistem upravljanja vatrom: 1A40

Dnevna nišanska sprava: TPD-K1

Noćna nišanska sprava: TPN-1


Ima tu naravno i dosta podverzija, u zavisnosti od godišta i korisnika (SSSR ili izvoz)
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Dus510
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« Reply #6343 on: January 11, 2022, 12:52:13 pm »

DNNS-2 je sprava a sustav je SUV-M-84. Mislim da je Omega 84 netko lupio i otada ostalo, pravi naziv je EFCS3-84L a oznaka sprave je SGS-84L. Ova dva sustava se znatno razlikuju. Kako je išlo na T-72? Što konkretno?
Wink
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StefanK
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« Reply #6344 on: January 12, 2022, 05:57:57 pm »

Another question today. Because the manual is not very clear here if you can't sit in the tank yourself.
1.
The main switch at the bottom of the gunners grips unit (KBN) has three options. But how are they designed?
Is it like this: OFF -> SYSTEM -> ELECTRONIC (sequential)

Or so: OFF -> ELECTRONIC  -> SYSTEM  (sequential)

Or so: SYSTEM <- OFF -> ELECTRONIC (either … or)

2.
Is the electrohydraulics for vertical and horizontal only switched on with the main switch in position ELECTRONIC or in position SYSTEM?

3.
Is the computer in operation when main switch is in position SYSTEM or position ELECTRONIC? (and then the mirror can be controlled by the computer?)



« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 06:09:19 pm by StefanK » Logged
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