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Author Topic: Građanski rat u Ukrajini  (Read 359124 times)
 
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jadran2
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« Reply #1050 on: September 03, 2014, 01:39:51 pm »

Malo u proslost....Galicija, istocnije od Lvova.
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« Reply #1051 on: September 03, 2014, 02:44:57 pm »

Jeremije, svaki rat (i uopste svako djesavanje na svijetu) ima razlicite nivoi i "lica". Za geopoliticara jedni, za ekonomista drugi, za ratnika treci, za pisaca cetvrti. Vazno samo sto je najinteresantnije za Tebe


u stvari je puno jednostavnije nego sto se govori..sva ova grozota je nastala iz zelje da se pritisne ona druga strana a Ukrajina je samo pozornica. Putina, Obamu i EU ne zanima patnja Ukrajinskih drzavljana. sve je to inters pa ako triba pobiti 50 milijuna ljudi onda ce se i pobiti. politika daje cilj a cilj ne bira sredstva
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kumbor
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« Reply #1052 on: September 03, 2014, 02:52:07 pm »

Pa ja sve vreme i govorim da Obamu i EU savršeno ne zanimaju civilne žrtve ... ako su one ... ruske, proruske, antikijevske, ili kako hoćete. Za Putina te su žrtve možda nužne, jer kako reče juče, zar očekujete da će neko mirno ići kao ovce na klanje.. oružje u ruke i izborite svoj život.

Maločas je CNN uživo davao govor Obame u Tallinu, Estonija, u susret sutrašnjem početku NATO samita u Velsu. Je li to neki grad Vels, ili je, kako je verovatnije, sastanak u Walesu, (levo od Engleske)? Čudan odnos prema pokrajini Walesu. Govori kao da je to neki grad, ili čak selo, a ne deo još uvek Velike Britanije. Slušajući govor, samo mogu da zaključim da je to pravi advokatski govor (Obama je pravnik, bivši advokat). Priča svašta, lepe, zvučne i pismene rečenice, samo što, ocenjene u celini nemaju mnogo smisla, vizije, cilja i mudrosti.... Čudi me od tako, nesumnjivo obrazovanog i inteligentnog čoveka, suštastvena kratkovidost i preteća ispraznost njegovih reči. Imate problem... naši tenkovi su blizu, rešićemo vam ga. Samo dajte pare, ne manje od 2% GDP godišnje. Plaši me to, ipak sam rastao u krilu zapadne kulture, nisam odljuljan na ruskim bajkama, već na Mikiju i Paji i Diznilendu uopšte.

Istovremeno, RT daje jezive slike razorenih sela/gradova u istočnoj Ukrajini. Kada bih poverovao Obami, bilo bi mi jasno da su to zapravo Rusi sami sebi uradili, te da je Potrošenko polubog demokratije. Ipak, to ne mogu poverovati, te iskreno potvrđujem da sam Bizantinac - Levantinac.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 03:12:08 pm by kumbor » Logged
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#vragu i rat#


« Reply #1053 on: September 03, 2014, 04:52:23 pm »

Sukob u Ukrajini: Dogovor o miru mogao bi pasti već u petak!

    Moskva, 03.09.2014.

Ruski predsjednik Vladimir Putin u srijedu je izjavio kako se nada da će u petak biti postignut konačni dogovor između Kijeva i proruskih separatista.

Ruski predsjednik Vladimir Putin u srijedu je izjavio kako se nada da će u petak biti postignut konačni dogovor između Kijeva i proruskih separatista te je dodao da su njegovo stajalište i stajalište njegova ukrajinskog kolege Petra Porošenka u pogledu rješenja krize u Ukrajini vrlo slična.

'Vjerujem da bi se konačni dogovor o rješenju sukoba u Ukrajini između ukrajinskih vlasti i jugoistoka Ukrajine mogao postići i dogovoriti 5. rujna, na sastanku kontaktne skupine', rekao je Putin novinarima u Ulan Batoru, glavnom gradu Mongolije, a prenose ruski mediji.

'Naša stajališta o načinu rješavanja sukoba izgledaju mi vrlo bliska', rekao je Putin, potvrđujući da je ranije u srijedu razgovarao s Porošenkom.

Ruski predsjednik predstavio je i plan rješavanje krize u Ukrajini u sedam točaka, među kojima su zaustavljanje ofenzive ukrajinske vojske i proruskih pobunjenika kao i razmjena zarobljenika. Isto tako, predložio je otvaranje humanitarnog koridora za izbjeglice i humanitarnu pomoć, kao i razmještanje međunarodnih promatrača na terenu.

Po njemu, prije svega treba 'okončati operacije' u području Donecka i Luhanska.

  http://dnevnik.hr/
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« Reply #1054 on: September 03, 2014, 05:12:06 pm »

Да су Порошенко и кијевски пучисти и самозванци мање фејсбучили и висили на Твитеру, а барем једном сврнули на Палубу и прочитали Џумбине анализе, ово бесмислено крвопролиће би се давно завршило...
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Да ли ћемо још коме сметати зато што смо своји?


« Reply #1055 on: September 03, 2014, 06:09:29 pm »

Bravo ovo je prravi komentar, bravo Dzumba
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« Reply #1056 on: September 03, 2014, 07:05:29 pm »

А читам, ви кренули у политику и препуцавање. Не знам зашто се жестите и препуцавате (и успут нервирате) јер то нема сврху.

Колико сам пратио извештаје обеју страна нема већих дејстава осим око града Волноваха. Наводно, оборен је и једна украјински авион.

Примећујем да обе стране "осећају" да ће следити неки договор о примирју и успорили су дејства (никоме се не гине пред крај). Порошенко је најавио трајни прекид ватре, али је чињеница да споразум о томе још нико није потписао ни договорио детаље. Ипак, верујем да ће обе стране, без обзира на међусобне сујете наћи неки модус и договорити прекид оружаног сукоба. Ако је памети сваки даљни "рат" треба водити само и једино за зеленом столом. Сваки даљи оружани сукоб треба да спречавају обе стране контролишући своје екстремисте. Колико ће обе стране бити то у стању показаће време, али верујем да ће после 10-15 дана то моћи да функционише. У почетку ће проблем да зауставе ратовање имати побуњеници ("па ми побеђујемо, што смо стали"), а касније украјинска власт (због јаких десничарских елемената и олигарха који су се директно укључили у плаћање "добровољаца").

Интересантно је да побуњеници сугеришу да су најслабија тачка у украјинском распореду били територијални батаљони и "добровољци" које су финансирали олигарси. Они су се први повлачили или предавали. Наводно, нај отпорније и најаче у војничком смислу су биле регуларне украјинске јединице за које кажу да су се генерално и најбоље понашале. Наравно све ово може бити и пропаганда побуњеника (коју су у последњих 20-так дана врло систематско и врло успешно водили), али ипак одражава неко стање на бојишту.
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« Reply #1057 on: September 03, 2014, 08:09:00 pm »

Startfor je objavio novi pregled stanja na ratištu zaključno sa 2. septembrom. Sudeći po Stratforu, pobunjenici su na više pravaca napravili ozbiljne pomake koji čak prete da ugroze i glavninu ukrajinske vojske. Članak sadrži i preglednu vojnu mapu trenutnog stanja (2.09).

Sa ruskom podrškom separatisti beleže uspehe

With Russian Support, Separatists Make Gains



Summary

The Ukrainian government's operation against pro-Russia separatists appears to be on the verge of collapse in key areas, with forces suffering considerable reversals and facing the threat of encirclement at multiple points across eastern Ukraine. Given the separatists' rapid advances, considerable equipment range as well as notable artillery and general firepower, it is becoming increasingly clear that Russia has contributed greatly to militant operations -- with Russian units likely even leading a number of key assaults against Ukrainian positions.

At the moment, Russia possesses a significant military advantage in eastern Ukraine. Through this recent push, Moscow hopes to force Kiev into direct talks with militants. Militarily, time is on Moscow's side, but it seeks to press this advantage while separatists retain the upper hand and before sanctions impact the Russian economy.

Analysis

The Ukrainian government's operation against pro-Russia separatists appears to be on the verge of collapse in key areas, with forces suffering considerable reversals and facing the threat of encirclement at multiple points across eastern Ukraine. Given the separatists' rapid advances, considerable equipment range as well as notable artillery and general firepower, it is becoming increasingly clear that Russia has contributed greatly to militant operations -- with Russian units likely even leading a number of key assaults against Ukrainian positions.

At the moment, Russia possesses a significant military advantage in eastern Ukraine. Through this recent push, Moscow hopes to force Kiev into direct talks with militants. Militarily, time is on Moscow's side, but it seeks to press this advantage while separatists retain the upper hand and before sanctions impact the Russian economy.

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In separatist-held Luhansk, closer to the Russian border, Kiev could be on the verge of its most critical defeat yet. Alleged armored Russian military and separatist spearheads are staging a rapid pincer movement south and north of Luhansk, which could soon completely encircle Ukrainian forces there. To the northwest of Luhansk, militants have also advanced on the lightly held town of Slavyanoserbsk, while to the southeast elements allegedly belonging to a Russian tank battalion have reportedly driven out Ukrainian troops occupying Luhansk airport. This maintains pressure on Kiev's forces and widens the now-open corridor along the E40 highway that runs from the Russian border to the city of Luhansk. Taken as a whole, these advances could potentially cut off the lines of supply to Ukrainian forces around Luhansk.

At this point, Ukrainian forces continue to display considerable unit cohesion. Many troops, however, are rapidly approaching a state of combat ineffectiveness due to sustained exposure to difficult fighting. The Ukrainian military has failed to directly support volunteer battalions with artillery fire or reinforcements, and heavy casualties have reduced their size in the Ilovaisk pocket. Additionally, the Ukrainian General Staff has announced the withdrawal of a Carpathian territorial defense battalion from the line due to heavy casualties.

Separatist and Russian forces have launched strikes in recent weeks in the south near Mariupol and in the border area near Luhansk, forcing Kiev's troops to stretch thin to cover the widening conflict zone. Spreading its meager reserves, especially to bolster Mariupol, has left the government with precious little to counterattack Russian penetrations around Donetsk and Luhansk.

The conflict between Kiev and pro-Russian separatists is far from over. However, as Ukrainian forces stretch progressively thinner and Russia becomes increasingly committed to the war, it will become increasingly likely that Kiev will need substantial foreign intervention to regain the advantage, though it is unlikely to receive such help. Both NATO and the European Union have demonstrated a lack of enthusiasm for direct involvement in the conflict, and continue to rely on sanctions and increased NATO rotations in Eastern Europe. Because of this, Kiev is rapidly running out of options and may soon have to settle with Russia and the separatist leadership at the negotiating table.

Stratfor




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Да ли ћемо још коме сметати зато што смо своји?


« Reply #1058 on: September 04, 2014, 09:41:29 am »

Zanimljiv člnak sa sajta

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/02/whos-telling-the-big-lie-on-ukraine/

Who’s Telling the ‘Big Lie’ on Ukraine? (Ko priča velike laži o Ukraini)
September 2, 2014   

Exclusive: Official Washington draws the Ukraine crisis in black-and-white colors with Russian President Putin the bad guy and the U.S.-backed leaders in Kiev the good guys. But the reality is much more nuanced, with the American people consistently misled on key facts, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

If you wonder how the world could stumble into World War III – much as it did into World War I a century ago – all you need to do is look at the madness that has enveloped virtually the entire U.S. political/media structure over Ukraine where a false narrative of white hats vs. black hats took hold early and has proved impervious to facts or reason.

The original lie behind Official Washington’s latest “group think” was that Russian President Vladimir Putin instigated the crisis in Ukraine as part of some diabolical scheme to reclaim the territory of the defunct Soviet Union, including Estonia and other Baltic states. Though not a shred of U.S. intelligence supported this scenario, all the “smart people” of Washington just “knew” it to be true.
Russian President Vladimir Putin addresses a crowd on May 9, 2014, celebrating the 69th anniversary of victory over Nazi Germany and the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the Crimean port city of Sevastopol from the Nazis. (Russian government photo)

Russian President Vladimir Putin addresses a crowd on May 9, 2014, celebrating the 69th anniversary of victory over Nazi Germany and the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the Crimean port city of Sevastopol from the Nazis. (Russian government photo)

Yet, the once-acknowledged – though soon forgotten – reality was that the crisis was provoked last year by the European Union proposing an association agreement with Ukraine while U.S. neocons and other hawkish politicos and pundits envisioned using the Ukraine gambit as a way to undermine Putin inside Russia.

The plan was even announced by U.S. neocons such as National Endowment for Democracy President Carl Gershman who took to the op-ed page of the Washington Post nearly a year ago to call Ukraine “the biggest prize” and an important interim step toward eventually toppling Putin in Russia.

Gershman, whose NED is funded by the U.S. Congress, wrote: “Ukraine’s choice to join Europe will accelerate the demise of the ideology of Russian imperialism that Putin represents.  … Russians, too, face a choice, and Putin may find himself on the losing end not just in the near abroad but within Russia itself.”

In other words, from the start, Putin was the target of the Ukraine initiative, not the instigator. But even if you choose to ignore Gershman’s clear intent, you would have to concoct a bizarre conspiracy theory to support the conventional wisdom about Putin’s grand plan.

To believe that Putin was indeed the mastermind of the crisis, you would have to think that he somehow arranged to have the EU offer the association agreement last year, then got the International Monetary Fund to attach such draconian “reforms” that Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych backed away from the deal.

Then, Putin had to organize mass demonstrations at Kiev’s Maidan square against Yanukovych while readying neo-Nazi militias to act as the muscle to finally overthrow the elected president and replace him with a regime dominated by far-right Ukrainian nationalists and U.S.-favored technocrats. Next, Putin had to get the new government to take provocative actions against ethnic Russians in the east, including threatening to outlaw Russian as an official language.

And throw into this storyline that Putin – all the while – was acting like he was trying to help Yanukovych defuse the crisis and even acquiesced to Yanukovych agreeing on Feb. 21 to accept an agreement brokered by three European countries calling for early Ukrainian elections that could vote him out of office. Instead, Putin was supposedly ordering neo-Nazi militias to oust Yanukovych in a Feb. 22 putsch, all the better to create the current crisis.

While such a fanciful scenario would make the most extreme conspiracy theorist blush, this narrative was embraced by prominent U.S. politicians, including ex-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and “journalists” from the New York Times to CNN. They all agreed that Putin was a madman on a mission of unchecked aggression against his neighbors with the goal of reconstituting the Russian Empire. Clinton even compared him to Adolf Hitler.

This founding false narrative was then embroidered by a consistent pattern of distorted U.S. reporting as the crisis unfolded. Indeed, for the past eight months, we have seen arguably the most one-sided coverage of a major international crisis in memory, although there were other crazed MSM stampedes, such as Iraq’s non-existent WMD in 2002-03, Iran’s supposed nuclear bomb project for most of the past decade, Libya’s “humanitarian crisis” of 2011, and Syria’s sarin gas attack in 2013.

But the hysteria over Ukraine – with U.S. officials and editorialists now trying to rally a NATO military response to Russia’s alleged “invasion” of Ukraine – raises the prospect of a nuclear confrontation that could end all life on the planet.

The ‘Big Lie’ of the ‘Big Lie’

This madness reached new heights with a Sept. 1 editorial in the neoconservative Washington Post, which led many of the earlier misguided stampedes and was famously wrong in asserting that Iraq’s concealment of WMD was a “flat fact.” In its new editorial, the Post reprised many of the key elements of the false Ukraine narrative in the Orwellian context of accusing Russia of deceiving its own people.

The “through-the-looking-glass” quality of the Post’s editorial was to tell the “Big Lie” while accusing Putin of telling the “Big Lie.” The editorial began with the original myth about the aggression waged by Putin whose “bitter resentment at the Soviet empire’s collapse metastasized into seething Russian nationalism. …

“In prosecuting his widening war in Ukraine, he has also resurrected the tyranny of the Big Lie, using state-controlled media to twist the truth so grotesquely that most Russians are in the dark — or profoundly misinformed — about events in their neighbor to the west. …

“In support of those Russian-sponsored militias in eastern Ukraine, now backed by growing ranks of Russian troops and weapons, Moscow has created a fantasy that plays on Russian victimization. By this rendering, the forces backing Ukraine’s government in Kiev are fascists and neo-Nazis, a portrayal that Mr. Putin personally advanced on Friday, when he likened the Ukrainian army’s attempts to regain its own territory to the Nazi siege of Leningrad in World War II, an appeal meant to inflame Russians’ already overheated nationalist emotions.”

The Post continued: “Against the extensive propaganda instruments available to Mr. Putin’s authoritarian regime, the West can promote a fair and factual version of events, but there’s little it can do to make ordinary Russians believe it. Even in a country with relatively unfettered access to the Internet, the monopolistic power of state-controlled media is a potent weapon in the hands of a tyrant.

“Mr. Putin’s Big Lie shows why it is important to support a free press where it still exists and outlets like Radio Free Europe that bring the truth to people who need it.”

Yet the truth is that the U.S. mainstream news media’s distortion of the Ukraine crisis is something that a real totalitarian could only dream about. Virtually absent from major U.S. news outlets – across the political spectrum – has been any significant effort to tell the other side of the story or to point out the many times when the West’s “fair and factual version of events” has been false or deceptive, starting with the issue of who started this crisis.

Blinded to Neo-Nazis

In another example, the Post and other mainstream U.S. outlets have ridiculed the idea that neo-Nazis played any significant role in the putsch that ousted Yanukovych on Feb. 22 or in the Kiev regime’s brutal offensive against the ethnic Russians of eastern Ukraine.

However, occasionally, the inconvenient truth has slipped through. For instance, shortly after the February coup, the BBC described how the neo-Nazis spearheaded the violent seizure of government buildings to drive Yanukovych from power and were then rewarded with four ministries in the regime that was cobbled together in the coup’s aftermath.

When ethnic Russians in the south and east resisted the edicts from the new powers in Kiev, some neo-Nazi militias were incorporated into the National Guard and dispatched to the front lines as storm troopers eager to fight and kill people whom some considered “Untermenschen” or sub-human.

Even the New York Times, which has been among the most egregious violators of journalistic ethics in covering the Ukraine crisis, took note of Kiev’s neo-Nazi militias carrying Nazi banners while leading attacks on eastern cities – albeit with this embarrassing reality consigned to the last three paragraphs of a long Times story on a different topic. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “NYT Discovers Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis at War.”]

Later, the conservative London Telegraph wrote a much more detailed story about how the Kiev regime had consciously recruited these dedicated storm troopers, who carried the Wolfsangel symbol favored by Hitler’s SS, to lead street fighting in eastern cities that were first softened up by army artillery. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Ignoring Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers.”]

You might think that unleashing Nazi storm troopers on a European population for the first time since World War II would be a big story – given how much coverage is given to far less significant eruptions of neo-Nazi sentiment in Europe – but this ugly reality in Ukraine disappeared quickly into the U.S. media’s memory hole. It didn’t fit the preferred good guy/bad guy narrative, with the Kiev regime the good guys and Putin the bad guy.

Now, the Washington Post has gone a step further dismissing Putin’s reference to the nasty violence inflicted by Kiev’s neo-Nazi battalions as part of Putin’s “Big Lie.” The Post is telling its readers that any reference to these neo-Nazis is just a “fantasy.”

Even more disturbing, the mainstream U.S. news media and Washington’s entire political class continue to ignore the Kiev government’s killing of thousands of ethnic Russians, including children and other non-combatants. The “responsibility to protect” crowd has suddenly lost its voice. Or, all the deaths are somehow blamed on Putin for supposedly having provoked the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

A Mysterious ‘Invasion’

And now there’s the curious case of Russia’s alleged “invasion” of Ukraine, another alarmist claim trumpeted by the Kiev regime and echoed by NATO hardliners and the MSM.

While I’m told that Russia did provide some light weapons to the rebels early in the struggle so they could defend themselves and their territory – and a number of Russian nationalists have crossed the border to join the fight – the claims of an overt “invasion” with tanks, artillery and truck convoys have been backed up by scant intelligence.

One former U.S. intelligence official who has examined the evidence said the intelligence to support the claims of a significant Russian invasion amounted to “virtually nothing.” Instead, it appears that the ethnic Russian rebels may have evolved into a more effective fighting force than many in the West thought. They are, after all, fighting on their home turf for their futures.

Concerned about the latest rush to judgment about the “invasion,” the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, a group of former U.S. intelligence officials and analysts, took the unusual step of sending a memo to German Chancellor Angela Merkel warning her of a possible replay of the false claims that led to the Iraq War.

“You need to know,” the group wrote, “that accusations of a major Russian ‘invasion’ of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence. Rather, the ‘intelligence’ seems to be of the same dubious, politically ‘fixed’ kind used 12 years ago to ‘justify’ the U.S.-led attack on Iraq.”

But these doubts and concerns are not reflected in the Post’s editorial or other MSM accounts of the dangerous Ukraine crisis. Indeed, Americans who rely on these powerful news outlets for their information are as sheltered from reality as anyone living in a totalitarian society.
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« Reply #1059 on: September 04, 2014, 10:55:26 am »

Zapovijednik Ukrajinskog bataljona "Aydar" je rekao kako su njegove snage minirale termalnu elektranu u gradu Shchastya. Ta elektrana snabdjeva toplinskom i električnom energijom gradove Donjeck i Lugansk, kaže da ako pobunjenici pokušaju istjerat Ukrajinsku vojsku iz grada Shchastya da će elektrana biti podignuta u zrak i da će spomenute regije i gradovi ostati bez električne i toplinske energije preko cijele zime.

<iframe width="720" height="420" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5Kxo_k6ZDgg?fs=1&start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true"></iframe>


Od prilike to je dobra taktika, što god netko mislio o tome. Greška Ukrajinske vojske je bila što time nije zaprijetila još u 6 mjesecu kad je sve ovo započelo, naprosto da djeluje "preventivno" na bilo kakav pokušaj oružane pobune. Ne bi bilo prvi puta da su se vojske koristile takvim metodama da odvrate neprijatelja. Energetika itekako može biti korišteno kao sredstvo odvraćanja. Umjesto vojnih operacija i gubljenja života, mogli su naprosto ići na kartu sankcija, izolacije , prekida dotoka energenata itd...

Ne zaboravimo, ima Ukrajina i nuklearne elektrane, kao i susjedna Rusija - a obje zemlje imaju i balističke projektile velikog dometa...neke čak veoma blizu Ukrajinske granice...
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Да ли ћемо још коме сметати зато што смо своји?


« Reply #1060 on: September 04, 2014, 11:10:17 am »

Donjecki region ima veliki broj elektrana tako da je ova priča  bez veze.
Svetlodarsk je mnogo bliži Donjecku nego ....

po wikipediji:

Svitlodarsk (Ukrainian: Світлодарськ, Russian: Светлодарск) is a city in Donetsk Oblast (province) of Ukraine. As of the 2009 census, the city had a total population of 12,936.

It is an industrial urban-type settlement, built as the home for the Vuhlehirska thermal power plant.

Demographics

Native language as of the Ukrainian Census of 2001

    Russian 75.0%
    Ukrainian 24.6%
    Belarusian 0.1%
    Armenian 0.1%

« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 11:28:46 am by motorista 57 klasa » Logged
vathra
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« Reply #1061 on: September 04, 2014, 11:31:56 am »

Zapovijednik Ukrajinskog bataljona "Aydar" je rekao kako su njegove snage minirale termalnu elektranu u gradu Shchastya. Ta elektrana snabdjeva toplinskom i električnom energijom gradove Donjeck i Lugansk, kaže da ako pobunjenici pokušaju istjerat Ukrajinsku vojsku iz grada Shchastya da će elektrana biti podignuta u zrak i da će spomenute regije i gradovi ostati bez električne i toplinske energije preko cijele zime.

Od prilike to je dobra taktika, što god netko mislio o tome. Greška Ukrajinske vojske je bila što time nije zaprijetila još u 6 mjesecu kad je sve ovo započelo, naprosto da djeluje "preventivno" na bilo kakav pokušaj oružane pobune
. Ne bi bilo prvi puta da su se vojske koristile takvim metodama da odvrate neprijatelja. Energetika itekako može biti korišteno kao sredstvo odvraćanja. Umjesto vojnih operacija i gubljenja života, mogli su naprosto ići na kartu sankcija, izolacije , prekida dotoka energenata itd...
Отприлике добра тактика за неке терористе, и експрес карта за суђење.

Неко ко се представља као владина снага не сме да се користи терором.
Поготово што у овом сукобу потенцирају да се боре против терориста и руских војника.
А у пракси имамо бомбардовање и претње цивилном становништву.
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pvanja
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« Reply #1062 on: September 04, 2014, 11:52:48 am »

Svaka akcija ima reakciju.
To bi bilo samo produbljivanje sukoba. I ovako je ova nesretna akrcija Ukraine nanela vise stete nego koristi Ukraini.
Da su pregovarali sa nezadovoljnim na istoku napravili bi bolji dogovor nego sto ce to biti sad.
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anton-pecerski
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« Reply #1063 on: September 04, 2014, 01:14:05 pm »

Ako Mjeljnicuk podigne nesto u vazduh sigrno ce ocekivati predaju mu zarobljenika iz njegovog bataljona... po parcama
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pvanja
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« Reply #1064 on: September 04, 2014, 01:53:14 pm »

Ovde je artiljerija ozbiljno radila.

Nisam znao da prorusi imamju 9M79 SS-21 Tocku.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_missile_system_vehicle_uk/ss-21_scarab_9m79_tochka_ground_to_ground_short_range_ballistic_missile_data_sheet_specifications_uk.html

U svakom slucaju rekao sam da svaka akcija ima reakciju - Ukr je prva pocela da koristi takticke balisticke rakete.



« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 01:58:58 pm by pvanja » Logged
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