Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« on: January 08, 2015, 11:35:51 pm » |
|
Hi,
What is known about foreign MiG-21 and MiG-23 aircraft at ZMAJ service and repair institute?
I know some Iraqi AF, Libyan AF and Sudan AF aircraft did underwent maintenance at Zmaj. I have seen pictures of Libyan AF MiG-21bis 209, Sudanese AF MiG-21US 300 and Iraq AF MiG-23ML 23269.
In July 1991 there were 56 aircraft of different types in the "ZMAJ" institute: 13 aircraft in working order were transferred in July 1991, while 43 non-operational aircraft were evacuated along with all spare parts, i.e. 1,329 components, in the first half of December 1991.
"ZMAJ" was evacuated, pursuant to the agreement cosigned by the representatives of the European Community Monitoring Mission (ECMM), who were responsible for its implementation. Is there an information about these 56 aircraft?
Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Adler
potporučnik
Offline
Last Login:March 20, 2015, 12:56:08 am
Posts: 2 160
|
|
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 11:47:55 pm » |
|
Most of those aircraft evacuated had been YAF aircraft.
As I know, only IQAF MiG-21SMT (but equivalent to bis variant) and MiG-23s were overhauled at Zmaj in 1991.
Moma Stanojlović Air Force Technical MRO Institute at Batajnica has completed overhaul of YAF aircraft transfered from Zmaj Air Force Technical MRO Institute while IQAF fihgters were preserved in storage or conserved for long-term open storage.
Let me take few minutes I'll try to find precise numbers.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Adler
potporučnik
Offline
Last Login:March 20, 2015, 12:56:08 am
Posts: 2 160
|
|
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 12:19:38 am » |
|
10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269, 23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj for mid-level overhaul. Out of these aircraft only 23269 has been overhauld. That MiG-23 flew to Željava AFB and than to Batajnica AFB by pilot Omer Avdaković. Aircraft was handed over to Moma Stanojlović Air Force Technical MRO Institute, while other 23s were put in storage at 160th Logistic Support Base at Pančevo, city near Belgrade. For some time, 23269 formed part of the open exibition of the YAF Museum at Nikola Tesla Int'l. Now it is in Moma Stanojlović Depot.
Regarding 21s, only 8 Iraqi MiG-21SMT remained in Yugoslavia. As I said, despite SMT designation they are actually bis variant with addition of air condition system. During NATO aggresion against the FRY radars were stripped from IQAF MiGs and used for imitation of AD radars. Also airframes were put to visible locations as baits imitating FRYAF Fishbeds but they were recognised because of their camuflage so none has been destroyed. They are now in Moma Stanojlović Depot but in poor state. Iraqi officials were briefly interested in them but lost interest after inspection of the state of aircraft and after they were informed on possibilities and cost to back them in flyable condition.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SvetoJ
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 08, 2021, 01:18:57 pm
Posts: 5
|
|
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 10:37:00 am » |
|
10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269, 23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj f.
It is not 23272 but 23282
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2015, 01:25:19 pm » |
|
10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269, 23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj f.
It is not 23272 but 23282 Thanks for this update. Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2015, 01:36:06 pm » |
|
10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269, 23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj for mid-level overhaul. Out of these aircraft only 23269 has been overhauld. That MiG-23 flew to Željava AFB and than to Batajnica AFB by pilot Omer Avdaković. Aircraft was handed over to Moma Stanojlović Air Force Technical MRO Institute, while other 23s were put in storage at 160th Logistic Support Base at Pančevo, city near Belgrade. For some time, 23269 formed part of the open exibition of the YAF Museum at Nikola Tesla Int'l. Now it is in Moma Stanojlović Depot.
Regarding 21s, only 8 Iraqi MiG-21SMT remained in Yugoslavia. As I said, despite SMT designation they are actually bis variant with addition of air condition system. During NATO aggresion against the FRY radars were stripped from IQAF MiGs and used for imitation of AD radars. Also airframes were put to visible locations as baits imitating FRYAF Fishbeds but they were recognised because of their camuflage so none has been destroyed. They are now in Moma Stanojlović Depot but in poor state. Iraqi officials were briefly interested in them but lost interest after inspection of the state of aircraft and after they were informed on possibilities and cost to back them in flyable condition.
Many many thanks for the MiG-23 serial numbers. If you lived in my neighbourhood I would buy you a pivo. Is this "Iraqi episode" still a secret? It would be nice if we can have access to official documents which also contain the construction numbers and other details about these MiG-23 aircraft. I have found a wikileaks document about this subject. http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BELGRADE990_a.htmlYou are talking about 8 MiG-21 aircraft. In the wikileaks the talk about six or seven MiG-21 aircraft. Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Adler
potporučnik
Offline
Last Login:March 20, 2015, 12:56:08 am
Posts: 2 160
|
|
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2015, 02:15:42 pm » |
|
As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD. Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rsI've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2015, 02:59:39 pm » |
|
10 MiG-23ML (export subvariant B) with registrations 23252, 23269, 23292, 23267, 23260, 23279, 23288, 23278, 23290 and 23272 came to Zmaj f.
It is not 23272 but 23282 Thanks for this update. Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland 23272 was captured by US Forces at al-Bakr AB in 2003. al-Bakr AB was known by the US Forces as Joint Base Balad (the new name for what used to be called Balad Air Base by the Air Force and Logistics Support Area Anaconda by the Army). Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2015, 04:14:04 pm » |
|
As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD. Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rsI've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago. I have the following MiG-21 serials: S/n C/n 21138 unknown 21168 75044485 21174 unknown 21177 unknown 21186 unknown 21190 unknown 21198 75070204 21204 75071709 21206 75071395 21285 unknown There are some mistakes in this list. 10 MiG-21 aircraft is just to much. Who can shed some light on this matter Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 01:11:12 pm » |
|
As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD. Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rsI've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago. I have the following MiG-21 serials: S/n C/n 21138 unknown 21168 75044485 21174 unknown 21177 unknown 21186 unknown 21190 unknown 21198 75070204 21204 75071709 21206 75071395 21285 unknown There are some mistakes in this list. 10 MiG-21 aircraft is just to much. Who can shed some light on this matter Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland Seems the mentioned serials are correct according the article in the March 2010 issue of AFM (written by Aleksander Radic). One addition, an other c/n is 75064888. No s/n-c/n tie-up Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Adler
potporučnik
Offline
Last Login:March 20, 2015, 12:56:08 am
Posts: 2 160
|
|
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 02:54:53 pm » |
|
Well, it seems that only God Almighty knows everything about those jets. I've found some concerning work done on these aircraft. MiG-21IQ21168 overhauled 21198 overhauled 21204 overhauled 21206 overhauled 21186 overhaul was near complete 21174 half work done 21177 half work done 21190 half work done 21138 nothing done 21285 MiG-23ML23269 overhaul complete Pictured in 1997 with serial 21186. According to Radić's article in Arsenal 57/2011 production no. is 25056. 23292 overhauled 70% 23267 overhauled 60% 23260 overhauled 55% 23272 overhauled 2% 23252 overhauled 6% other between 30 and 45% Only real option in my opinion is to restore this complete MiG-23 and a MiG-21 and put them to Museum. If you have someone who speak Serbian here you can find another Radić's article on MiG-23 23269: odbrana.mod.gov.rs
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SvetoJ
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 08, 2021, 01:18:57 pm
Posts: 5
|
|
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 07:03:26 pm » |
|
As I know, all official documentation is classified but you may ask our MoD. Their PR email is info@mod.gov.rs In addition you may file a request (in Serbian of course) under Article 15 paragraph 1 of the Act on the Free Access to the Information of Public Importance. You may even consult Commissioner poverenik.rsI've talked to a collegue of mine today and he said that these MiG-21s were actually overhauled and even flew under YAF and FRYAF markings for some time. Registrations are 21168, 21198, 21204, 21206. Of course TBO as well as service life have passed long time ago. I have the following MiG-21 serials: S/n C/n 21138 unknown 21168 75044485 21174 unknown 21177 unknown 21186 unknown 21190 unknown 21198 75070204 21204 75071709 21206 75071395 21285 unknown There are some mistakes in this list. 10 MiG-21 aircraft is just to much. Who can shed some light on this matter Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland Jeroen, according yugoslav sources there are 10 MiG-21bis + 10 Mig-23ML but i think that only 8 MiG-21 are really exisiting in Serbia today .It was planed to recive 24 iraqi MiG-21bis for overhaul (and some other types latter in 1991) - from these 24 planes some were overhauled and returned to Irak , other actually never arrived to Zmaj and they exist only on paper (as planed for overhaul but acctually never came into overhaul plant).Beside these four planes from your list(168,198,204,206 wich you probably saw in MoST durring airshow in 2012 ) wich were actually overhauled and serviced by YAF personell for some time,only another four are stored in Serbia today : 174,177,186,190. To be 100% sure try to get infromation from arms control inspection wich is visiting Serbia since 1996. - we have no secrets Best regards Svetozar Yokanovich P.S. MiG-23 "ML" are probaly produced as MLA but it is not possible to investigate this here becouse its electronic equipment was not planned for overhaul so there is no tehnical documentation its radar ... Zmaj called them MiG-23ML
|
|
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 07:17:21 pm by SvetoJ »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 11:37:37 am » |
|
Hi,
In the recently released book "MiG-23 Flogger in the Middle East" some new information about MiG-23ML 23260 was revealed.
The highest scorer Iraqi MiG-23ML (with 2 kill markings) was 2560. This MiG-23ML was re-serialed as 23260.
According to my information the following former Iraqi MiG-23ML aircraft were sent to Zmaj for overhaul: 23252 23260 23267 23269 23278 23279 23282 23288 23290 23292
Except for 23269, are all the remaing aircraft still stored in a warehouse at the 160th Logistic Support Base in Pančevo?
Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2018, 12:17:23 pm » |
|
Well, it seems that only God Almighty knows everything about those jets. I've found some concerning work done on these aircraft. MiG-21IQ21168 overhauled 21198 overhauled 21204 overhauled 21206 overhauled 21186 overhaul was near complete 21174 half work done 21177 half work done 21190 half work done 21138 nothing done 21285 MiG-23ML23269 overhaul complete Pictured in 1997 with serial 21186. According to Radić's article in Arsenal 57/2011 production no. is 25056. 23292 overhauled 70% 23267 overhauled 60% 23260 overhauled 55% 23272 overhauled 2% 23252 overhauled 6% other between 30 and 45% Only real option in my opinion is to restore this complete MiG-23 and a MiG-21 and put them to Museum. If you have someone who speak Serbian here you can find another Radić's article on MiG-23 23269: odbrana.mod.gov.rsSome time ago, a non painted former Iraqi MiG-21bis was seen stored at Batajnica. It had c/n 75064888. Could this be serial 21186? Rgd, Jeroen
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Nijmeijer
mornar
Offline
Last Login:April 01, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
Posts: 40
|
|
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2020, 09:02:37 am » |
|
Hi,
Found a 'new' picture of an Iraqi MiG-21bis after it was overhauled at Zmaj.
Rgd, Jeroen Nijmeijer Holland
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|