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Author Topic: Enigma B-2  (Read 127813 times)
 
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Bozo13
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« Reply #180 on: February 10, 2011, 08:52:22 pm »

`Delivered to USAF`` i rubrika ``Arrived Whiteman`

Ako dobro razumem, prvi je datum kad je USAF preuzela avijon, a drugi kada je stigao u bazu (postao operativan?)
7 godina za jedan od prvih avijona, tako tehnično složenih, se mi ne čini mnogo (dečje bolesti etc)
Pitanje je, kako je bilo u ugovoru. Možda je USAF išla na ruku dobavljaču i preuzela "nekompletan" avijon, da bi program išao dalje (da se nebi platili penali).

Pitanje za znalce, koja je razlika između c/n (Construction Number (aircraft industry)) i s/n (serijski broj)?
Dali je c/n broj proizvedenih jedinica (od 1 do zadnjeg) a s/n može startati od recimo 100001 pa do zadnjeg?

LPB

 
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #181 on: February 10, 2011, 09:03:51 pm »

c/n je fabrički broj letelice, dok je serijski broj isto što i naš VE broj letelice.

Recimo fabrički broj je 001, a serijski 51-2850.
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« Reply #182 on: February 10, 2011, 09:04:53 pm »

c/n bi trebalo da je fabricki broj (kao na automobilu broj sasije) a s/n e registarski broj (kao na autu tablice)

Nego sve bi to mozda bilo lepo ali mi nikako ne stima sledece:

2.avion (AV-2) - 7,5 godina od jednog do drugog datuma
3.avion (AV-3) - 6,5 godina
AV-4 - 7 godina
AV-5 - nesto manje od 5 godina iako je primljen u USAF samo 3 dana kasnije u Vajtman je stigao 2 godine ranije)
AV-6 - nesto manje od 5 godina


I onda naglo svi od AV-7 do AV-18 (za poslednja 3 nema poradtaka o prijemu u USAF) izmedju 2 datuma je samo 1-3 dana (ima 2 ili 3 izuzetka od 15-ak dana).
 

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Bozo13
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« Reply #183 on: February 10, 2011, 09:06:45 pm »

Znači za avione je c/n isto kao za elektroniku s/n? Ako dobro razumem, fabrički s/n je definiran kao c/n, dok je s/n definira kupac?

LPB
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« Reply #184 on: February 10, 2011, 09:08:19 pm »

Jes` tako Bozo.
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MOTORISTA
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« Reply #185 on: February 10, 2011, 09:14:21 pm »

c/n je skraćenica od construction number.
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Bozo13
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« Reply #186 on: February 10, 2011, 09:18:12 pm »

Hvala, sada kad je leglo, sve je puno jasnije.

Koliko vidim/pratim avion B-2 je uspešno pračen i dejstvovano je na njega. Verovatno nije bio srušen, ali nešto se desilo. Saznanje da B-2 nije "nevidljiv" u takvoj mjeri, kao što je mišljeno bio je najmanje šok. Prave posledice je pitanje dali čemo ikada saznati. Po mome su prave posledice "pračenja" i dejstvovanja na B-2 dodatni troškovi (neplanirani?) oko poboljšanja na tu temu.
Na kraju je svaki rat "ekonomski" i sa tim činom (pored F117) napravljena je velika šteta UASF ($). Jedino fali "skalp" na zidu da bi uspeh bio potpun.

Možda razmišljanje nije ni pravo ni korektno, ali je moje Wink

LPB
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TNT024
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« Reply #187 on: February 10, 2011, 10:23:44 pm »

Znači za avione je c/n isto kao za elektroniku s/n? Ako dobro razumem, fabrički s/n je definiran kao c/n, dok je s/n definira kupac?

LPB
NE!
c/n je fabrički broj i on je individualan za svakog proizvođača a samim tim i za svaki proizvod i nema dva ista. E sada s/n neko tumači kao broj koji daje korisnik, međutim češće se poistovećuje s/n sa l/n. Koliko sam shvatio s/n je broj koji proizvođači dodeljuju za pojedine tipove, l/n se češće koriste kod putničkih aviona.
Primer za Boing  - putnički avion
 YU-AKA   JAT (JU)
Model: 200 (2H9)A
Godina proizvodnje: 1974.
c/n      20930
l/n      1044
f/f      31.05.1974.
Primer Douglas
C/n      Type           Line    Regs. . . . . . .
10270    C-54A-1-DC     1       42-72165
Douglas C-54A-15-DC Skymaster
42-72241 (c/n 10346, DC-77) to American Airlines in 1946 as N90440 "Flagship Houston" To US Overseas Airlines as N90440 in 1956.  In 1962 to Air France as F-BFCP.  W/o May 28, 1969 when ran off runway during takeoff at Paris-Orly airport.

Tako da s/n nema veze sa serijalima koje dodeljuju ratna vazduhoplovstva.

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TNT024
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« Reply #188 on: February 10, 2011, 10:28:17 pm »


U vezi modernizacije me interesuje da li je to modernizacija sa block 20 na block 30? A na ovom sajtu ne nadjoh  ni jedan broj aviona koji je modernizovan. Koliko mi je Google preveo to sve sto pise odnosi se na stavke modernizacije ali ne i na kom avionu.

Možda ovo pomogne

82-1066/82-1071   Northrop B-2A Block 10 Spirit
82-1066   AV-1   c/n 1001   *Fatal Beauty*, upgraded as Block 30 in 2000. Now named *Spirit of America*
82-1067   AV-2   c/n 1002   *Spirit of Arizona*, upgraded as Block 30 1997. Was also nicknamed *The Ship From Hell* and *Murphy's Law* because various things went wrong.
82-1068   AV-3   c/n 1003    *Shady Lady*/*The Ghost*, upgraded as Block 30 in 1999. Named *Spirit of New York*. Made first test flight wih Ku-Band Active Electronically Scanned Antenna Apr 28, 2006.
82-1069   AV-4   c/n 1004   *Spirit of Indiana*, upgraded as Block 30 in 2000. Nicknamed *Christine*. (509th BW/393rd BS) damaged when undercarriage collapsed during maintenance May 15, 2002.
82-1070   AV-5   c/n 1005   *Fire and Ice*, upgraded as Block 30 in 1999. Named *Spirit of Ohio*. The airframe at USAF Museum is not the real 82-1070 AV-5, but is Airframe No 4 (used for fatigue testing) which has an old nose wheel door from the real aircraft with the serial on it.
82-1071   AV-6   c/n 1006   *Black Widow*, upgraded as Block 30. Also listed as being named *Spirit of Mississippi*.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1988.html

1988. USAF Serial Numbers
Last revised January 15, 2011

88-0328/88-0332   Northrop B-2A Block 10 Spirit
88-0328   AV-7   c/n 1007   *Spirit of Texas*. Upgraded to Block 30 status in 1998. Nicknamed 'The Pirate Ship'.
88-0329   AV-8   c/n 1008   *Spirit of Missouri*. Upgraded to Block 30 status in 1997. (509th BW/325th BS) first all-female B-2 crew flew this plane on training mission from Whiteman AFB Oct 18, 2004. Mar 2008 photo shows names "Spirit of Missouri" and "Alley Oop" on starboard mainwheel door.
88-0330   AV-9   c/n 1009   *Spirit of California*. Upgraded to Block 30 status in 1998.
88-0331   AV-10   c/n 1010   *Spirit of South Carolina*. Upgraded to Block 30 status in 1998.
88-0332   AV11   c/n 1011   *Spirit of Washington*. Upgraded to Block 30 status in 1999.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1989.html

1989. USAF Serial Numbers
Last revised January 7, 2011

89-0127/89-0129   Northrop B-2A Block 10 Spirit
89-0127   AV-12   c/n 1012   *Spirit of Kansas*. Upgraded to Block 20 1996, to Block 30 1998. Made the first landing of a B-2 in Australlia, at RAAF Darwin, Northern Territory Jul 27, 2006. Crashed on takeoff from Andersen AFB, Guam 23.02.2008. (509th BW, 393rd BS). Both crew ejected safely. Crew reported an onboard fire, followed by uncontrollable roll to starboard. Cause of crash was a corruption of the plane's air data system, caused by presence of moisture in system during calibration.
89-0128   AV-13   c/n 1013   *Spirit of Nebraska*. Upgraded to Block 20 1996, to Block 30 1999.
89-0129   AV-14   c/n 1014   *Spirit of Georgia*. Upgraded to Block 20 1997, to Block 30 1999.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1990.html

1990. USAF Serial Numbers
Last revised January 7, 2010

90-0040/90-0041   Northrop B-2A Block 10 Spirit
90-0040   AV-15   c/n 1015   *Spirit of Alaska*. Upgraded to Block 20 1997, to Block 30 1999
90-0041   AV-16   c/n 1016   *Spirit of Hawaii*. Upgraded to Block 20 1996, to Block 30 1999.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1992.html

1992. USAF Serial Numbers
Last revised January 7, 2010

92-0700   Northrop B-2A Block 20 Spirit
92-0700   AV-17   c/n 1017   *Spirit of Florida*. Modified to Block 30 1999.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1993.html

1993. USAF Serial Numbers
Last revised January 7, 2011

93-1085/93-1086   Northrop B-2A Block 20 Spirit
93-1085   AV-18   c/n 1018   *Spirit of Oklahoma*. Modified to Block 30 2000.
93-1086   AV-19   c/n 1019   *Spirit of Kitty Hawk*. Modified to Block 30 2000.
93-1087/93-1088   Northrop B-2A Block 30 Spirit
93-1087   AV-20   c/n 1020   *Spirit of Pennsylvania*
93-1088   AV-21   c/n 1021   *Spirit of Louisiana*

« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 02:09:59 am by leut, Reason: popravak citata » Logged
Kuzma®
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« Reply #189 on: February 11, 2011, 08:13:30 am »

Zakljucak iz ovoga je da ni jedan nije nadogradjen na block 30 posle 2000.godine.
Isto tako zakljucujem da je 88-0329   AV-8   c/n 1008   *Spirit of Missouri*. Upgraded to Block 30 status in 1997.

Zasto je onda kako Deligrad rece pocetkom 2010 predstavljen kao avion kome je izvrsena korenite i temeljna modernizacija?
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« Reply #190 on: February 11, 2011, 01:54:44 pm »

Quote
The USAF only obtained a total of 20 operational aircraft.

izvor: http://wingweb.co.uk/aircraft/2/The_Northrop_Grumman_B-2_Spirit_Stealth_Bomber.html

I jos nesto zanimljivo u Nacionalnom muzeju USAF u delu posvecnom hladnom ratu se nalazi AV-5 za koji se tvrdi da je operativan.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=422
http://www.flickr.com/groups/54351875@N00/

Sve se vise zapetljava.
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« Reply #191 on: February 11, 2011, 02:20:31 pm »

Nije to AV-5, to je model napravljen za statičke testove bez motora. On je korišćen i za ispitivanje komandnih površina da se vidi koliko opterećenje mogu da izdrže pre pucanja. Nikada nije leteo, a poklonjen je muzeju nakon čega su ga restauratori muzeja 3 godine modifikovali kako bi što vernije prikazali izgled operativnog B-2.

Što se tiče modernizacije od 2010. to je modernizacija koja je započeta 2004. na osnovu koje je ugrađen novi AESA radar i implementirano novo naoružanje kako bi se povećao spektar misija koje može da izvede avion.
Spirit of Missouri je pre toga 1997. modernizovan na Block 30.
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« Reply #192 on: February 11, 2011, 02:28:06 pm »

Ok, Dexy. Vidim avion, muzej, broj a sa druge strane imamo slike tog aviona pa mi bilo cudno. sad je razjasnjeno.

Ovo za modernizaciju Misurija na blok 30 znam.
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80sBoy
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« Reply #193 on: February 11, 2011, 05:57:18 pm »

Nasao na ACIG

Quote
I was in the Army in 1999 and we had heightened readiness during that war. I remeber that on some day morning we received report that Serbs got B-2 bomber but at the midday it was denied

Pavel Novak
Czech Republic

Ovo mi izgleda kao da su dobili info vojnom linijom,pa posle kada su se sabrali brze bolje demantovali.
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« Reply #194 on: February 11, 2011, 06:30:29 pm »

Pronaso sam ovo iz 2000.godine medjutim na linku koji se nalazi na kraju teksta kada se naslov izvestaja ukuca u pretragu dobija se obavestenje da stranica trenutno nije dostupna.
Ne pominje se B-2 posto je saopstenje od ranijeg datuma ali se pominju neke druge stvari koje mogu da budu zanimljive.

Quote
Press Statement: For Immediate Release

NATO's "Other" Yugoslavia Losses and POWs Still Not Acknowledged NATO's "Other" Losses and POWs Yugoslavia Still Not acknowledged
Alexandria, Virginia: May 4, 1999 Alexandria, Virginia: May 4, 1999

NATO forces, including the United States, have lost numerous aircraft and have already suffered significant loss-of-life among ground troops in the Yugoslavia conflict, NATO forces, including the United States, have lost numerous aircraft and have already suffered significant loss-of-life among ground troops in the Yugoslavia conflict,
according to a report published today by the journal which in 1994 predicted the Kosovo war. according to a report published today by the journal in 1994 which predicted the Kosovo war.
"Strategic Policy", the monthly journal of the "Defense & Foreign Affairs" division of the worldwide International Strategic Studies Association (ISSA), a non-governmental organization (NGO) for senior national security officials from some 165 countries, said that NATO forces may have lost, up until April 20, as many as 38 fixed-wing aircraft and six helicopters in the Kosovo conflict. "Strategic Policy", the monthly journal of the "Defense & Foreign Affairs" division of the worldwide International Strategic Studies Association (ISSA), a non-governmental organization (NGO) for senior national security officials from some 165 countries, said that NATO forces may have lost, up until April 20, as many as 38 fixed-wing aircraft and six helicopters in the Kosovo conflict. As well, it said, as many as 50 NATO ground troops --officially not acknowledged even to be in the conflict-- may have lost their lives. As well, it said, as many as 50 NATO ground troops - officially not acknowledged even to be in the conflict - may have lost their lives. The journal, in December 1992, said that (then) President-elect Bill Clinton "will be tempted to take fast, populist decisions on the Balkans crisis, and these could be fatal for any chances for peace there." The journal, in December 1992, said that (then) President-elect Bill Clinton "will be tempted to take fast, populist decisions on the Balkans crisis, and these could be fatal for any chances for peace there." In the February-March 1994 edition of "Strategic Policy", staff writer TW (Bill) Carr wrote: "Other areas, perhaps with even greater potential for ethnic conflict [than northern Serbia], are Kosovo and the Sanjak In the February-March 1994 edition of "Strategic Policy", staff writer TW (Bill) Carr wrote: "Other areas, perhaps with even greater potential for ethnic conflict [than northern Serbia], are Kosovo and the Sanjak
region of Yugoslavia. region of Yugoslavia. Here the problem is an explosive mixture of religion and nationalism with roots reaching back in remote history and the Tito era. Here the problem is an explosive mixture of religion and nationalism with roots reaching back in remote history and the Tito era. Adjacent to Kosovo is Muslim Albania from whence came 95 percent of the present day population of Kosovo." Adjacent to Kosovo is Muslim Albania from whence came 95 percent of the present day population of Kosovo. "

ISSA in April this year put together the fact-finding mission which took US Congressman Jim Saxton (R-NJ) to Belgrade. ISSA in April this year put together the fact-finding mission which took U.S. Congressman Jim Saxton (R-NJ) to Belgrade. The journal, which has been covering the The journal, which has been covering the
Balkan wars and the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) in detail since the early 1990s, said in today. Balkan wars and the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) in detail since the early 1990s, said in yesterday. s report, written by ISSA President Gregory Copley, who is editor of the journal: "It is clear from the amount and quality of intelligence received by this journal from a variety of highly-reputable sources that NATO forces have already suffered significant losses of men, women and materiel. Neither NATO, nor the US, UK or other member governments, have admitted to these losses, other than the single USAF F-117A Stealth fighter which was shown, crashed and burning inside Serbia." s report, written by ISSA President Gregory Copley, who is editor of the journal: "It is clear from the amount and quality of intelligence received by this journal from a variety of highly-reputable sources that the NATO forces have already suffered significant losses of men , women and materiel. Neither NATO nor the U.S., UK or other member governments, have admitted to these losses, other than the single USAF F-117A Stealth fighter which was shown, crashed and burning inside Serbia. "
"The Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff had denied, about a month into the bombing, that the US had suffered the additional losses reported to Defense & Foreign "The Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff had denied, about a month into the bombing, that the U.S. had suffered the additional losses reported to Defense & Foreign
Affairs." "By April 20, 1999, NATO losses stood at approximately the following: 38 fixed-wing combat aircraft; Six helicopters; Seven unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs); "Many" Cruise Missiles (lost to AAA or SAM fire)." "Several other NATO aircraft were reported down after that date, including at least one of which there was Serbian television coverage. Affairs. "" By April 20, 1999, NATO's losses stood at approximately the following: 38 fixed-wing combat aircraft, helicopters Six, Seven Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), "Many" Cruise Missiles (lost to AAA or SAM fire). "" Several other NATO aircraft were reported down after that date, including at least one of which there was Serbian television coverage. The aircraft reportedly include three F-117A Stealth strike aircraft, including the one already known. The aircraft reportedly include three F-117A stealth strike aircraft, including the ones already known. One of the remaining two was shot down in an air-to-air engagement with a Yugoslav Air Force MiG-29 fighter; the other was lost to AAA (anti-aircraft artillery) or SAM surface-to-air missile) fire. One of the remaining two was shot down in an air-to-air engagement with a Yugoslav Air Force MiG-29 fighter, the other was lost to AAA (anti-aircraft artillery) or SAM surface-to-air missile) fire.
Given the recovery by the Yugoslavs of F-117A technology, and the fact that the type has proven less than invincible, the mystique of the aircraft --a valuable deterrent Given the recovery by the Yugoslavs of F-117A technology, and the fact that the type has proven less than invincible, the mystique of the aircraft - a valuable deterrent
tool until now for the US-- has been lost." tool until now for the U.S. - has been lost. "

"At least one USAF F-15 Eagle fighter has been lost, with the pilot, reportedly an African-American major, alive and in custody as a POW." "At least one USAF F-15 Eagle fighter has been lost, with the pilot, reportedly an African-American major, alive and in custody as a POW." "At least one German pilot "At least one German pilot
(some sources say two men, implying perhaps a Luftwaffe crew from a Tornado) has been captured." "There is also a report that at least one US female pilot has been (Some sources say two men, perhaps implying a Luftwaffe crew from a tornado) has been captured. "" There is also a report that at least one U.S. female pilot has been
killed." "In one instance in the first week of the fighting, an aircraft was downed near Podgorica. killed. "" In those instances in the first week of fighting, an aircraft was downed near Podgorica. A NATO helicopter then picked up the downed pilot, but the helicopter A NATO helicopter then picked up the downed pilot, but the helicopter
itself was then shot down, according to a number of reports." "Losses of US and other NATO ground force personnel, inside Serbia, have also been extensive." itself was then shot down, according to a number of reports. "Losses of U.S. and other NATO ground force personnel, inside Serbia, have also been extensive."

"A Yugoslav Army unit ambushed a squad climbing a ravine south of Pristina, killing 20 men. When the black tape was taken from their dog-tags it was found that 12 "A Yugoslav Army unit ambushed a squad climbing a ravine south of Pristina, killing 20 men. When the black tape was taken from their dog-tags it was found that 12
were US Green Berets; eight were British special forces (presumably Special Air Service/SAS). U.S. Green Berets were, eight were British Special Forces (Presumably Special Air Service / SAS). This incident apparently occurred within a week or so of the bombing This incident apparently occurred within a week or so of the bombing
campaign launch." "It is known that other US and other NATO casualties have, on some occasions, been retrieved by NATO forces after being hit inside Yugoslavia. campaign launch. "" It is known that other U.S. and other NATO casualties have, on some occasions, been retrieved by NATO forces after being hit inside Yugoslavia.
At least 30 bodies of US servicemen have been processed through Athens, after being transported from the combat zone." At least 30 bodies of U.S. servicemen have been processed through Athens, after being transported from the combat zone. "

"At least two of the helicopters downed by the Yugoslavs were carrying troops, and in these two a total of 50 men were believed to have been killed, most of them (but "At least two of the helicopters downed by the Yugoslavs were carrying troops, and in these two a total of 50 men were believed to have been killed, most of them (but
not all) of US origin." "Certainly, the US has lost to ground fire and malfunction a number of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. not all) of U.S. origin. "" Certainly, the U.S. has lost to ground fire and malfunction and the number of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. At least some of these have been retrieved At least some of these have been retrieved
more or less intact, and the technology has been immediately reviewed by Yugoslav engineers. more or less intact, and the technology has been immediately reviewed by Yugoslav engineers. More than one told this writer that the technology was now readily able More than one told this writer that the technology was now readily able
to be replicated in Yugoslavia." to be replicated in Ireland. "

The journal. The journal. s 17-page report also details the extent of the drug-money financing of the KLA and the impact of the Cox Committee report . with a 17-page report also details the extent of the drug-money financing of the KLA and the impact of the Cox Committee report. detailing White House links detailing White House links
to Chinese intelligence funding . to Chinese intelligence funding. on the Clinton Administration. on the Clinton Administration. s decision to continue the war against Yugoslavia. s decision to continue the war against Yugoslavia. As well, the report outlined the dangers to the West of As well, the report outlined the dangers to the West of
a protracted conflict in Yugoslavia, not only from the war there, but also because of the chance that it would trigger other conflicts, including a Chinese invasion of and Protracted conflict in Yugoslavia, not only from the war there, but also because of the chance that it would trigger other conflicts, including a Chinese invasion of
Taiwan and a North Korean invasion of South Korea. Taiwan and the North Korean invasion of South Korea. The report said that the drawdown on US standoff weapons and other military assets heightened the risk of The report said that the drawdown on U.S. standoff weapons and other military assets heightened the risk of
opportunistic attacks being undertaken by countries which felt that the US could no longer deter their action. Opportunistic attacks being undertaken by countries which felt that the U.S. could no longer deter their action.

The report also said that the loss of US and NATO prestige as a result of the Yugoslav adventure would also make future global stability more difficult to sustain. The report also said that the loss of U.S. and NATO's prestige as a result of the Yugoslav adventure would also make future global stability more difficult to sustain. For For
further information, and complete text of the article, please visit the website of the Association at: www.StrategicStudies.org (http://www.StrategicStudies.org) further information, and complete text of the article, please visit the website of the Association at: www.StrategicStudies.org (http://www.StrategicStudies.org)
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