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Author Topic: Suhoj Su-57 ( Suhoj PAK FA / T-50)  (Read 293511 times)
 
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pvanja
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« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2010, 08:31:11 pm »

Malo uporedjivanja
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Izgleda da se na snimku pojavio i primerak predvidjen za zemaljska ispitavanja - koji je testiran cini mi se dan pre prvog leta pak fa.

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« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 08:45:54 pm by pvanja » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2010, 03:23:31 am »

Indijci verziju za svoje tržište nazivaju FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft), a tvrde da se razvija ravnopravno sa rusima kao modifikacija osnovnog dizajna PAK FA. Ruski izvori tvrde da će se donekle razlikovati delovi krila i kontrolne površine kod FGFA u odnosu na PAK FA. Na indijskim forumima već uveliko razmatraju mogućnosti PAK FA kada je u pitanju nošenje rakete Brahmos koju su indijci razvili u saradnji sa rusima. Su-30MKI može da nosi jednu raketu Brahmos na centralnom podtrupnom nosaču.
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« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2010, 02:01:51 am »

Dexy, da li je ovo za kontrolne površine proverena informacija ili nagađanje? Indijci obično insistiraju na izuzetnoj pokretljivosti letelica zbog ograničenog prostora na kom će se voditi eventualni vazdušni boj sa Pakistanom, pa se računa na velik broj dogfightova. Iz ovog razloga Indijci mnogo vole kanare na svojim avionima.
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« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2010, 02:53:35 am »

To je citirana izjava nekoga iz biroa HAL data krajem prošle godine, pominje se ova izjava na dosta mesta, evo članak u kojem možeš pročitati nešto malo o tome:

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/India_Russia_To_Develop_Two_Versions_Of_5th_Generation_Fighter_999.html

Inače pretkrilca na napadnim ivicama strejkova bi mogla da postignu odmene kanare, ali i vektorisani potisak može samostalno postići isti efekat ako se pravilno koristi.
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« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2010, 01:04:39 pm »

Pojavilo se i par crteža u tri projekcije, ne znam koliko su precizni:

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« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2010, 04:04:52 pm »

Imali smo malih tehničkih problema sa ovom temom, te se izvinjavamo svima zbog toga.
Fotke visoke rezolucije na kojima se vidi dosta detalja postavio @aquila na AS forumu:



« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 03:03:21 pm by Adler, Reason: Obrisane 2 nepostojeće fotografije. » Logged
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« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2010, 09:21:37 pm »

par zanimljivih informacija tj nagadjanja o ucescu materijala u PAK FA

Russia has traditionally built metallic aircraft; just 10 per cent of the Su-30MKI fuselage is titanium and composites. The FGFA’s fuselage, in contrast, will be 25 per cent titanium and 20 per cent composites.

Global Security.com
(Current F-22 Weight Distribution)

Titanium 64 (Ti-64) 36%
Thermoset Composites 24%
Aluminum (Al) 16%
Other Materials* 15%
Steel 6%
Titanium 62222 (Ti-62222) 3%
Thermoplastic Composites >1%

Izvor
http://rusembassy.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=249&lang=en
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/india-to-develop-25fifth-generation-fighter/381786/

Ovo je isto pretpostavka oko dimenzija
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I nesto malo o mogucim kombinacijama naoruzanja

From Paralay.

The T-50 can carry 4 medium range missiles(R-77 mod with more compact fins) or 2 long range missiles(R-33/37 or a new perpective missile) in each of the large weapon bays (the ones between air intakes) and 1 short range missile in each small underwing bay. The short range missile is not R-73 but a new missile, speculations say it's 9m100, a missile that is supposed to be used not only on fighters but also on SHORADs.
There is speculation that each weapon large bay can carry a single KAB-1500 bomb.

Loud outs could be:

8x medium range missiles + 2x close combat missiles.
4x medium range missiles + 2x long range missiles + 2x close combat missiles.
2x KAB-1500 + 2x close combat missiles.

Evo jednog dosta informativnog videa ali na zalost na ruskom
http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=258454
Za one koji stoje slabije sa ruskim evo malo i na engleskom
Some main points:
New composites(carbon reinforced polymers) were developed specificaly for PAK-FA.
PAK-FA is expected to have the same ammount of composites as F-22 or F-35.
PAK-FA AESA has 1500+ TRMs.
PAK-FA will have 5 radar antennas: 1 in the front, 2 on the sides and 2 L-band in wing edges.
NIIP AESA is currently udergoing trals.
Claims that NIIP radar has some "things" that neither F-35 or F-22 have.

jos malo prevoda ovog vide

Short translation of important notes (i'm not russian so native speakers fell free to correct):

00.01-00.50
Su-47 was a father of PAK-FA. Su-47 was a unique plane nobody else has a plane with FSW.
00.50-1.45
T-50 will achieve if not superiority over US planes then parity for certain. Build with "stealth" tech PAK-FA will have shielded engines and engine paddles.
1.45-2.40
Looking at analogs like F-22 and F-35 composites found wide use. To the degree of 40 percent. We are sure that use of composites will be no less than those percent. At company "Texnologya" new carbonplastic material was developed for PAK-FA. While for western fifth generation fighters very expensive invar composites are used (with small thermal expansion). Our carbon composites are lighter, cheaper and meet needed thermal expansion requirements too.
2.40-4.35
in future air battle those with better sensors will win. PAK-FA AESA has more then 1500 TR modules. PAK-FA will have 5 AESA radars: 3 X-band in forward and side section and 2 L-band in wings. Speaking of PAK-FA potential for radio location there is nothing close in F-22 or F-35.
4.35-6.38
F-22 concept stresses being invisible to ground radars. T-50 concepts is to see F-22 first and overmatch it in close fight too. PAK-FA to TVC engines. T-50 engines is futher development of article 117. Tho final 5 gen engines are still in development. Already now PAK-FA will supercruise. We are in talk with indian partners on futher development of 5 gen fighter.


The ideology of F-22 is to be stealthy for ground locators, the ideology of PAK-Fa is to see the Raptor before and be a better close combat fighter.
The 5th generation engine is stil being perfected but even now the aircraft is ready for supercruise trials.
The plane that flew on the 29th may not look like the final version of PAK-FA but all the tested subsystems will soon take to the sky in the second prototype.

Soon a contract for creation of Indian FGFA may be signed, currently sides are in talks.




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pvanja
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« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2010, 09:41:56 pm »

@dexy
Mislim da je taj prvi crtez najblizi stvarnom stanju.

Povodom nase price oko oblika OSL-a

Evo kako to izgleda kod F-35

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A evo i jedna ideja sta je iza kabine.

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« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 09:48:33 pm by pvanja » Logged
leut
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« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2010, 02:24:49 pm »

Poletio Suhoj T-50

U Komsomolsk-na-Amuru, na istoku Rusije, 29. siječnja na svoj prvi probni let poletio je prototip ruskog borbenog aviona pete generacije Suhoj T-50. Avion je izgradio KnAAPO, dio holdinga Suhoj u sklopu programa PAK FA (Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsy) kao odgovor na natječaj ruskog ministarstva obrane pokrenutog 1998., radi izgradnje borbenog aviona zadnje generacije i zamjene za borbene avione MiG-29 i Su-27. Prototip uz oznaku T-50 nosi i oznake Product 701 i I-21. Kad su 2002. napušteni dotadašnji prijedlozi Suhoj 37/47 i MiG 1.44, inženjeri Suhoja su započeli rad na sasvim novom prototipu, koji je u konačnici 29. siječnja 2010. imao premijeru. Prema najavama iz Suhoja, T-50 će do 2015. biti spreman za uvođenje u inicijalnu operativnu uporabu.

Ruski inženjeri navode da su u radu na T-50 primjenjivali određena rješenja i iskustva s prototipova Suhoj 37/47 i MiG 1.44, ali isto tako brojni detalji na avionu upućuju da je i američki F-22A bio određeni uzor. T-50 ima napredne odlike poput smanjene radarske i toplinske slike, napredni paket avionike, napredni obrambeni sustav, novi AESA radar te nove oružnih sustava. T-50 je predviđen za ostvarenje prevlasti u zraku, te za napade na kopnene i površinske ciljeve. Prema trenutačnim planovima, Rusija za sebe kani razviti jednosjednu inačicu T-50 (kakva je i poletjela 29. siječnja), dok će za Indiju (koja je 2007. potpisala ugovor o pristupanju razvojnom programu) biti razvijana dvosjedna inačica.

T-50 je dugačak 22 m, visok 6,5 m dok raspon krila iznosi 14,2. Maksimalna masa na polijetanju je 37 tona, a ima 7,5 t korisne nosivosti. Maksimalna brzina je 2600 km/h, raspon krstarećih brzina je od 1300 km/h do 1800 km/h, dok je brzina penjanja 350 m/s. Maksimalni dolet je 5500 km, dok je operativni vrhunac leta na 20 km. Pogonsku će skupinu u budućnosti činiti dva motora Saturn 117S (AL-41F1A), potiska 86,3 kN suho odnosno 142 kN s dodatnim izgaranjem, koje T-50 na svom prvom probnom letu nije imao. Naoružan je s dva topa od 30 mm, te raznim projektilima i bombama na 16 podvjesnih točaka (osam unutarnjih i osam vanjskih).

Autor: I. Skenderović
Izvor: Hrvatski vojnik http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/
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« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2010, 08:46:23 am »

Jos jedna skica

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I moguci izgled radarske antene

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« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2010, 09:26:48 am »

Evo kako izgleda prezentacija Distributed Aperture System (EO DAS) na F-35:

<iframe width="720" height="420" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CwvnhFgzIKI?fs=1&start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true"></iframe>

A ovo što je @pvanja postavio je JSF EOTS i predstavlja deo tog sistema razvijen u Lockheed Martin-u i nešto je složeniji od DAS-a razvijenog u Northrop Grumman-u, a zajedno ovi senzori čine JSF Electro-Optical Sensor System (EOSS):

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/1232.pdf

@pvanja možeš li mi rastumačiti ono na ruskom pošto slabo stojim sa ruskim?

Jedan spekulativni cutaway:

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« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2010, 11:04:50 am »



I moguci izgled radarske antene


Ispravka izgled potkrilnog spremista za rakete kratkog dometa
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« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2010, 11:08:04 am »

Moguci izgled radarske antene u krilu

https://www.paluba.info/smf/avioni-i-helikopteri/su-pakfa/?action=dlattach;attach=11572
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« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2010, 06:37:45 pm »

09.02.2010.

Komandant ruskog RV-a Aleksandar Zelin je danas najavio da će prve isporuke novog aviona pete generacije početi 2015. godine a ne 2013. kako je prvobitno najavljeno. On je izjavio da se nada da će prototip biti potpuno spreman i operativan 2013., a da će isporuke serijskih primeraka početi 2015.

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Quote
Russian 5th-generation fighter deliveries delayed until 2015
09/02/201018:45

Deliveries of fifth-generation fighters to Russia's Air Force will start in 2015 rather than in 2013 as previously announced, the Air Force chief said on Tuesday.

"In 2013, I hope... the [Sukhoi] PAK FA prototype will be ready and fine-tuned, and we will start deliveries to military units in 2015," said Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin.

A prototype of the fighter made its maiden flight in Russia's Far East on January 29. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said after the 47-minute flight that the first batch of fifth-generation fighters would go into service in 2013.

Russia has been developing its newest fighter since the 1990s. The current prototype, known as the T-50, was designed by the Sukhoi design bureau and built at a plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

Russian officials have already hailed the fighter as "a unique warplane" that combines the capabilities of an air superiority fighter and attack aircraft.


Izvor: RIA Novosti


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« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2010, 07:10:40 pm »

Interesantna analiza Pak Fa iz zapadnog ugla

Major Work Ahead On T-50 Stealth Fighter

Feb 8, 2010

By David A Fulghum, Maxim Pyadushkin and Douglas Barrie

Russia has begun flying a stealthy fifth-generation fighter to rival the U.S. F-22, but Western analysts question whether Sukhoi can develop and deliver the aircraft by 2015 as promised.

Sukhoi’s T-50, which made its 47-min. first flight on Jan. 29 from the KnAAPO facility in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, is the prototype of the PAK FA “future front-line aircraft,” the first new-generation fighter for the Russian air force since the Su-27 Flanker entered service in 1984. India plans to co-fund development and co-produce the new aircraft.

The aircraft is clearly shaped for stealth, with the chined forward fuselage, planform edge alignment, internal weapons bays and small vertical tails. The T-50 shows resemblances to the F-22 Raptor, but also reflects its Su-27 heritage in the wide “centroplane” that blends the fuselage and wing.
Sukhoi says “the T-50 will demonstrate unprecedented small cross section in the radar, optical and infrared range owing to composites and innovative technologies applied in the fuselage, aerodynamics of the aircraft and decreased engine signature.”

U.S. analysts are impressed, but not yet panicked by the T-50. “Don’t go overboard and call it the Raptorski,” says a Washington-based official. “It is essentially a Flanker in the shape of a fifth-generation fighter at this point. It still needs supercruise engines, advanced radar and a lot more work before military planners can start saying how it’s going to compete with the F-22 or even the F-35.” Work on the T-50 began in the early 2000s, and the fighter is somewhere between a technology demonstrator and a development aircraft. How much effort is needed to finalize the production aircraft is not clear. Sukhoi’s Su-27 was substantially redesigned from the T-10 prototype, which first flew in 1977; but despite some rough edges, the T-50 looks closer to a finished product.

The YF-22 prototype first flew in September 1990, and the first development aircraft in September 1997, but the F-22 was not declared operational until December 2005—a longer cycle time than proposed for the PAK FA. And there are only three prototypes: the T-50-0 static-test article; T-50-1, now flying; and T-50-2, which will be used for ground testing. The two YF-22s were followed by nine development F-22s.

U.S. defense analysts see a flying planform that incorporates low-observable attributes in edges and shaping that are notable for a prototype. But, they caution, the work needed to finish a stealth design is great. There is obvious use of composites in the T-50; but many areas are metal, and analysts are unclear whether this is just for the prototype, with plans for more composites in production aircraft.

Seemingly similar in size to the Su-27, which it will replace, the T-50 like the Flanker has widely separated engines. This makes the three-dimensional thrust vectoring effective in roll, as well as yaw and pitch, and provides room in the center fuselage for fore and aft weapons bays. There are side bays for short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs) under the inboard wing sections. The centroplane also provides plenty of room for internal fuel. There are hardpoints for external stores under the inlets and wing.

Unusual design features include the small all-moving vertical stabilizers, made possible by thrust vectoring, and the movable wing leading-edge extensions. These act like foreplanes and provide the three-surface control afforded by the canard on the Su-30. The delta-wing planform, similar to the F-22’s and likewise coupled with powerful engines, will provide supercruise capability.

“It is apparent that more concern has been paid to shaping, but there are still many surface intersections and flight-test probes that will [increase the radar] signature,” says a senior U.S. Air Force officer involved in development of the F-117 and F-35. “In addition, we need to understand the mechanics of the very large inlets to determine how and if engine [radar reflection] blockage is achieved. And those wing leading-edge devices present a challenge for signature control.”
The prototype has a number of features that are not stealthy, including the infrared-search-and-track ball on the nose, the canopy frame, gaps around the inlets, and various unshielded intakes and grilles. There are no signs of any low-observable coatings and materials, but they would not be necessary for first flight, say analysts.

The T-50 was expected to fly with a pair of NPO Saturn 117S engines—a further modification of the uprated 32,000-lb.-thrust AL-31Fs installed in the new Su-35S multirole fighter. But Saturn says the T-50 flew with “completely new powerplants.” Compared to the 117S, the new powerplant has increased thrust and a digital control system adapted to T-50’s performance, says Ilya Fedorov, Saturn CEO and head of the PAK FA engine program.

But Russian Vice Premier Sergei Ivanov appeared to contradict Fedorov when he said the aircraft flew with engines from an earlier “4++” generation fighter. The question of a new engine for the PAK FA remains to be decided, he said.

“Engines are going to be one of the long poles in the tent,” says one U.S. analyst. Saturn and Salyut are developing competing 38,500-lb.-thrust engines. “The [refined supercruise] engine likely won’t be ready for several years , well beyond even initial operational capability.”

Another big question is availability of an advanced active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The PAK FA avionics suite is being developed by the Ramenskoye design bureau, with the AESA radar supplied by Tikhomorov NIIP. A full-scale antenna with 1,500 transmit/receive modules was unveiled at Moscow’s MAKS show in August. It is still in bench tests, and the prototype is likely flying without radar. The first radar for the aircraft is expected to be ready in mid-2010, but integration with the stealth fighter has yet to begun, U.S. analysts point out.

The T-50 appears to continue the Russian preference for a large weapons capacity. Although bay sizes have not been made public, near-term, beyond-visual-range weapons will be upgrades of the R-77—including the K-77-1 and K-77M developments of the basic AA-12 Adder medium-range radar-guided AAM. Long-range AAM options for internal carriage include upgrades of the R-37M (AA-X-13). In terms of short-range missiles, the baseline may be the K-74 upgrade of the infrared-homing R-73 (AA-11 Archer), although the long-running K-30 program will likely replace the Archer.
Air-to-surface weapons could include the Kh-38M family of medium-range missiles now in development. Mockups have featured folding control surfaces for compressed internal carriage. A new version of the decades-old AS-11 Kilter, the Kh-58UShK, has also emerged with folding surfaces for compressed carriage.

The T-50 is expected to complete several more flights at KnAPPO before moving to the test center at Zhukovsky, near Moscow. Senior Russian leadership has said the first preproduction batch will be delivered to Lipetsk in 2013 for state tests; but even with the Su-35S program providing development support for the T-50, service entry in 2015 looks ambitious.

“Lipetsk will function as a sort of Nellis, sort of Edwards, sort of Eglin [USAF bases] to wring out the jet, develop some basic employment doctrine, and write the flight and weapons employment manuals,” the U.S. analyst says. “Finally, they’ll train the initial instructor-pilot cadre for the first-line unit that will receive the jet—probably 18-24 months after the first one arrives at Lipetsk.”

Whether Sukhoi can meet the timeline depends on the success of testing and the financial commitment of the Russian and, crucially, Indian governments. India is ready to invest 25% of the PAK FA’s development cost and form a 50-50 joint venture to manufacture the fighter, with a basic requirement of 250 aircraft for each partner.

A two-seat PAK FA, dubbed the T-50UB, will be the basis of an export version for the Indian air force. Hindustan Aeronautics joined the program in 2008, but Sukhoi Director General Mikhail Pogosyan says Indian designers will participate in the later stages of development.
While India can bring significant funding, it cannot supply relevant technical expertise to help Sukhoi with the challenging task of developing and integrating a low-observable, network-centric, fifth-generation fighter. How soon, and how effectively, the Russians can deploy their rival to the F-22 remains to be seen.


Izvor: Aviation Week
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