Kinetika nema mnogo veze, pošto ruske rakete nisu penetratori vec difuzori.
Pod difuzore predpostavljam da mislis na bojevu glavu s parcadnim usmjerenim dejstvom.
Ako jeste meni se namece zakljucak sto vec bojeva glava-vise parcadi-veca pokrivenost ubojnog prostora.
Ako se raketa nalazila u Kaspucin Jaru još 2000. godine, veruj mi da je vec odavno završila sva ispitivanja.
To sto je bilo pre 8 godina ne znaci nista,imali su tako i Mig 1.42,S-37 pa na kraju nista.Vec sam govorio o AL-41 koji razvijaju preko 15 godina pa opet nista.Ako zelimo biti ozbiljni i realni,jedino uvodjenje u naoruzanje u nekom razumnom broju moze znaciti nesto kokretno,a dejstvo u nekom sukobu eventualno da ne pricam.
Što se tice americkih testiranja... C'mon!Oni su pustili vec delove svog super-mocnog-nenad****vog raketnog štita, a posle koliko presretnutih objekata?
Ne pratim stitove,niti buzdovane tako da ne mogu reci nista povodom toga.
ne samo da Rusi nemaju para, nego i vecina ostalih gde ukljucujem i Ameriku. Visoka vojna tehnologija koja se proizvodi u Americi je izuzetno lošeg kvaliteta i ulazi u sastav opreme sa cesto štimovanim podacima, samo da bi se zadovoljili apetiti proizvodaca oružja.
Naravno da niko nema dovoljno para ali cinjenica je da amerikanci imaju najvise,i mogu vise od ostalih da razvijaju,bolje opremaju...,jednom recju da budu u trendu.Sto se tice visoke vojne tehnologije loseg kvaliteta,kao i u slucaju buzdovana ne znam za ostalo ali za avijaciju to nije slucaj.
Zahvatanje cilja što se tice ove rakete se ne radi baš tako. Ovo je samonavodena raketa u terminalnoj fazi, a korekcija sa nadredenog radara se radi u tolu leta (ali nije neophodna)
Da bi primala korekcije radar s lansirne platforme mora da drzi lock.on i salje podatke raketi o kretanju cilja sve dok se ne aktivira njezin radar za samonavodjenje.E sad ako pukne lock usled ECM znaci da ce raketa ici prema zadnjoj informaciji gde se cilj nalazio pre toga,a na valikoj udaljenost takva odstupanja mogu biti znacajna.Pitanje je koliko dobar ima radar za samonavodjenje,a i bez toga veliki radarski odraz E-3 joj ide u prilog.
Jedan od clanova ovog foruma mnogo bolje zna tematiku oko rada raketnih sistema, pošto je i sam radio na njima, pa ga pozivam da se ukljuci u ovu raspravu.
Zovi ga ,radi sta znas dok se nisam jos vise izblamirao oko svog (ne)znanja o raketama.
Raketa koju si pomenuo GAR-9, tj. AIM-47, je po zvanicnoj specifikaciji imala dolet (!) od 160 km, ali nije mogla biti navodena na tu daljinu zbog ogranicenja radara iz tog doba, pošto je koristila SARH.
Nisi odradio domaci.
Kao prvo radar koji je trebao navoditi raketu bi je sve samo ne ogranicen.
The AN/ASG-18 and YF-12A combo produced the following results (from an early 80's SENIOR CROWN interceptor study):
-150NM detection range against an EC-121
-The system could sweep a 100NM wide corridor from sea level to 100,000 feet with a 75% probability of target detection (increased to 100% if a 50NM corridor was used)
-The AN/ASG-18 performed the best during front-quarter attacks.
Many improvements were made, and during YF-12 testing, a QB-47 target flying at 1000m was acquired at a staggering 130nm. In other tests, the AN/ASG-18 proved capable of tracking an Atlas D ballistic missile, and maintaining a track on a B-57 during a touch and go landing.
During flight testing there were several missile launches at drone targets. The most impressive launch was at mach 3.2 and at an altitude of 75,000 feet at a target 36 miles away and with a direct hit on the Boeing B-47 drone. The missiles were moved out of the weapons bays and into the air stream on a device called a trapeze, and then fired.Thus causing Johnson to note the program finally was "hitting the high speed corner of the design diagram". The missile missed its target at 40,000 feet and at a range of 36 miles by "6 feet 6 inches...which is a very good shot".
"7 launches; 6 hits; 1 malfunction" refers to YF-12 launches conducted between March 65 through September 66. The 1 malfunction was a gyro failure which occurred during the 2nd YF-12 launch in May 65.
The 818 pound Hughes AIM-47A, initially referred to as the GAR-9, was a Mach 4 radar-guided air-to-air missile with a range in excess of 125 miles. Its technology later was applied to the successful AIM-54.
Vecina citata je iz knjige :Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works by Jay Miller
Bilo je tu jos ambicioznih programa poput Bendix AAM-N-10 Eagle montiran na F6D.
The most important feature of the F6D was its Westinghouse AN/APQ-81 pulse-doppler radar, the first track-while-scan radar developed for a fighter aircraft. The AN/APQ-81 could detect targets at a distance of 220 km (120 nm).After launch, the AAM-N-10 would be boosted to Mach 3.5 by a large solid-propellant rocket booster with folding fins, and after a glide period, the long-burning solid-fueled sustainer motor would propel the missile toward its target at a speed of Mach 4.5. The AN/APQ-81, which could simultaneously track up to eight targets from 150 km (80 nm) away, would send guidance commands to the individual missiles to keep the latter on course to their respective targets. With the mid-course command guidance, the AAM-N-10 could fly an energy-efficient "lofted" trajectory, and maximum aerodynamic range was more than 300 km (160 nm).
AAM-N-10's radar could also home directly on jamming sources, in which case effective range could be as big as 300 km (160 nm).
Jedina knjiga koja pohvalno govori o AIM-54 je knjiga Tom Kupera. Njegovu strucnost ne želim da dovodim u pitanje, ali je cinjenica da su mu obe knjige žestoko popljuvane.
Ma koji crni Kuper on nema pojma o onome sta pise,a neki likovi koji poznaju stvari su mu to i stavili na doznanje.Njegovo znanje o AIM-54 je znanje iz javnih izvora s neta.U svom zanosu jednom prilikom na tomcat sunset forumu (zvanicnom forumu F-14 zajednice) poceo je nesto da trabunje o toj raketi kako ona funkcionise dok se nije javio lik kome je ta raketa bila posao 20 god. i rekao mu da oladi,jer informacije s neta nisu tacne.Procitao sam njegovu knjigu Iranian F-14 Tomcat units in combat,i nije me nesto impresionirala,jel imas neke konkretne price u vezi reakcija na istu.
Moje impresije o AIM-54 odnose se pre svega na informacije koje sam saznao iz izjava onih koji su radili s tom raketom,piloti itd.
@MOTORISTA
Prema americkom priznanju,oni nisu ispalili ni jednu jedinu raketu AIM-54 na neprijateljske avione.Bio je clanak na tu temu,prilikom povlacenja tih raketa iz upotrebe,u sada vec pokojnom "AEROMAGAZINU".
Procitao sam tu lakrdiju od clanka i ne mogu se cudom nacuditi da se neko toliko ne informisan usudio pisati o tome,a ovi sto su objavili su jos gori nije ni cudo sto su propali.Ne ulazim u strucnst autora ali izneo je dosta pogresnih zakljucaka.
-Prvo navodi da R-33 ima veci domet od AIM-54?
R-33 domet 120km iako to nije ono sto je upotrebljivo u borbi ali neka bude.
AIM-54A Iranci su u jednom testu krajem 70-tih pogodili metu na 212km.
Dok je u americkom slucaju
June – 1973 Hughes completed their testing program with a world record-setting performance; launched from an F-14A over Pt. Mugu, a Phoenix missile was launched against a BQM-34E Firebee drone at a distance of 110 nautical miles.
BQM-34E je velicine oko 6m.
Novije verzije AIM-54C i AIM-54C ECCM imaju poboljsane domete.
-Za autore je navodno interesantno da je USN nikada nisu upotrebili u borbenim dejstvima.
AIM-54C koristen od USN u dva navrata:
Januar 1999., kada su dva F-14D iz VF-2 svaki ispalili po jedan AIM-54C protiv dva IrAF MiG-25PD; poslednji su operirali velikom brzinom (Mach 2.2) na krajnjem dometu Phoenix; obe AIM-54C su promasile, ali se jedan MiG srusio kada mu je ponestalo goriva (pilot se katapultirao)
Septembar 1999; jedan F-14D iz VF-213 je ispalio jedan AIM-54C protiv MiG-23ML koji je operisao brzinom Mach 1.7 na krajnjem dometu. Phoenix je promasio.
-Autori takodje navode sistem navodjenja rakete.
Tacan nacin navodjenja,modove i prelasci iz jednog u drugi niko sem amerikanaca tacno ne zna.Opisane stvari mogu se jedino naci u manuelu za taj oruzani sistem,a on jos uvijek nije dostupan iako je stvar povucen iz upotrebe.Tako da jedino ostaje nagadjanje u sta se ovaj i upustio.
-Cena rakete koje se navodi je 477 000$
The Fiscal 1988/89 procurement documents list procurement price of the AIM-54A/C at $830,862 each in Fiscal Year 1989 dollars. The General Accounting Office, however, has placed the per unit cost of the AIM-54C for the purchase of 7,204 missiles at $922,000, closer to our previously quoted price of $972,083.
-R-33 podstakao razvoj AIM-54C
Malo sutra jedini razlog za to je sto su se iranci odmetnuli,pa su amerikanci krenuli u ubrzani razvoj da bi mogli su suprostaviti toj pretnji i razvili bolji AIM-54C.
To meet anticipated threats in the 1980s and beyond, the Navy initiated development of the improved AIM-54C Phoenix. This development was accelerated due to the compromising of AIM-54A technology in Iran.The C version is optimized for use against multiple, close-interval cruise missiles and waves or streams of hostile aircraft. The C model of the AIM-54 is also capable of operating in a severe electronic countermeasures environment, and features upgraded target detecting devices, electronic units, receiver-transmitter units, and autopilots, as compared with the AIM-54A.
-Raketa pokazala slabosti u gadjanju visoko manevarskih ciljeva.
Gde je to poakazala te slabosti,evo primer s gadanja 6 ciljeva simultano 21.11.1971.
Regarding tests against violently manoeuvering targets, in one case one AIM-54A was fired against an QF-86 from a range of 9.5nm (17.6km, almost within WVR, and far inside the "minimum" range of Phoenixes). The QF-86 pulled a 6G/174° turn (after the missile was launched) to break the radar lock, but the Phoenix pulled 16Gs and scored a direct hit.
S obzirom da je namenjena za gadjanje bombardera,njena prvenstvena namena nije gadajnje visoko pokretnih meta.
-Nedovoljna efikasnost za gadjanje ciljeva na maloj visini.
Opet nepoznavanje jer raketa je upjesno koristena u ovoj vrsti testiranja.
1984. god npr. upjesno je obavljeno unistavanje RGM-84 Harpoon,s tim sto raketa nije radila iskakanje.
Znaci masa stvari da ne idem dalje su ne tacne u navedenom clanku,a uz to jos masu stvari nije pomenuo.